RE: [Discuss-sudbury-model] Scientific SVS

From: Eva Lobach <>
Date: Tue Jan 24 04:38:00 2006

I agree that is it not possible to measure life.

But ... wouldn't you like the medicins that you take to be tested for
effectiveness, for instance, instead of basing your judgment on trust in the
farmaceutical companies only?
Wouldn't you like to have a good plumber repairing your leaking roof instead
of one who messes up?

It's a similar thing the moment my child and I choose a school.
On what do you base your decision?
Well, in my case, I believed in what I saw, but I am prejudiced.
Many authorities are prejudiced in the other direction and they are giving
us a really hard time.
So we need to have some kind of 'objective' measurement that may help to
instill some trust in those who try to force us back into the groove.

A measurement could simply be to count the number of people who report that
they are leading happy and fulfilling lives, like Tay, and compare that
number for graduates of different schools.

But I agree that there are many limitations to any approach that tries to
measure, but if we don't, we will still be judging. Do you know how your
judgment came about?

To me it seems that the most honest way of trying to influence the trust of
authorities is to find a relatively objective criterion that reflects what a
school like SVS does. Do you see another, equally or even more honest way?

Another thing is: in my view, it is really very interesting to try to
understand what happens on a school like SVS. What is it really, that makes
graduates from this school stand out? And what is it really, that makes many
students on regular schools feel so unhappy and full of stress?
We might think that we know, but do we really?
If you can show how it works, and try to indicate the features of the school
(if it is really to do with the school, and not, for instance, the magnetic
field around Framingham or the fact that Daniel Greenberg hangs out there)
that make graduates as effective adults, it may help to convince more
people, so there will be more schools like SVS and more people benefitting
from it.


> -----Original Message-----
> From: [mailto:discuss-sudbury-
>] On Behalf Of Tay Arrow Sherman
> Sent: dinsdag 24 januari 2006 4:40
> To:
> Subject: Re: [Discuss-sudbury-model] Scientific SVS
> Yeah yeah! I so agree.
> As an SVS grad, I set my own agenda for what aliveness and living mean.
> That is an excellent freedom, a deep happiness, and I think many people
> will never really know how it feels. Many who do, do so in spite of
> their upbringing. But I truly believe everyone could feel that way, if
> people were allowed to grow instead of being told that growing is for
> suckers, which is basically what happens in coercive ed.
> -Tay
> On 23 Jan, 2006, at 22.06, Dr. Evan Hughes wrote:
> > After having been in many philosophical discussions over the
> > years about the Sudbury model, I have found one common direction in
> > each case, and that is, the discussion quickly turns in to a debate
> > about the meaning of life...
> > SVS, is a school that allows children to grow in to who they
> > are. Their genetic potential, if you wish a scientific term. Human
> > potential is not measurable by science. It never has been.
> > There are stories of grandmothers lifting cars off of children,
> > people who survive diseases that are terminal, graduate school alumni
> > that are poor as dirt and grade school drop outs that are rich as a
> > sultan. Nazi prisoners that have found peace, and middle income
> > families at war with one another. SVS is about the human spirit
> > allowed to be made manifest in all it's wondrous forms.
> > So the simple question becomes: Can you really measure life? Can
> > you measure happiness?
> > What is the point of school? Answer: To empower children
> > (ultimately we can all agree on that one point, even in the
> > traditional mindset of school.)
> > OK. Empower children to do what? Answer: To.... ah..... live I
> > guess.
> > OK, so what is living?
> > By the way, don't even think of trying the "living is
> > contributing to society so we can measure what they have given to the
> > culture" rap. If it where possible to measure that, then it would have
> > to be true that women sat on their buts and did nothing to shape the
> > world/cultures until the 1950's! NICE TRY...
> > How can we possibly measure what it is that we are trying to
> > accomplish, when it is not really possible to define.
> > Behind all aspects of the Sudbury model must be trust in the
> > innate wisdom that runs life. This innate wisdom is smarter then us,
> > and as such, we are not qualified to judge it or measure it. To do so,
> > would result in failure.
> >
> > I believe that scientifically studying Sudbury schools is only
> > useful in marketing and one should be careful to use the results in
> > any other way; to model, change or evaluate the effectiveness of a
> > school for example.
> > Trust, not judgment.
> >
> > Evan
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Discuss-sudbury-model mailing list
> >
> >
> >
> >
> -Tay
> ---------------------------------------------------
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Received on Tue Jan 24 2006 - 04:37:59 EST

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