Re: [Discuss-sudbury-model] scientific backing of Sudbury

From: Sam Patton <sam_patton_at_hotmail.com>
Date: Sat Jan 21 03:45:00 2006

It can be called scientific in as much as they are measurable, objective
statistics that can be gathered. They aren't positive or negative, just
statistics. These statistics are available for regular schools. People are
constantly bemoaning the fact that they are far too high (for the bad ones)
and far too low (for the good ones). If children who have gone through
democratic schools have "better" average statistics than ones who go through
regular public schools, then that would be a very good thing to know, don't
you think? On the other hand, if they have "worse" statistics, then that's
also a very good thing to know. There's a very big difference between
knowing in your heart that you are doing the right thing, and actually doing
the right thing. Parents who send their children to fundamentalist
christian schools are at least as certain they are right as parents whose
children attend democratic schools.

For years people have said that private catholic schools educate children
better than regular public schools, yet they are almost diametrically
opposed to democratic schools. Maybe that's the right way to teach young
people?

Most people who go through public schools wind up being functional adults
who go on to live fairly happy lives. So do most homeschoolers,
unschoolers, and democratic schoolers. Maybe school's just not that
important?

sam

----- Original Message -----
From: "David Rovner" <rovners_at_netvision.net.il>
To: <discuss-sudbury-model_at_sudval.org>
Sent: Friday, January 20, 2006 11:02 AM
Subject: Re: [Discuss-sudbury-model] scientific backing of Sudbury

>
>
> I see you have a whole array of "scientific" backing about the negative
> effects of regular school: drop out rates, college graduation rates,
> careers
> entered, teen pregnancy rates, rate of drug use by category, suicide
> rates -- if that can be called scientific. Can you give "scientific"
> backing
> about positive effects of regular school ?
>
> ~ David
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Sam Patton" <sam_patton_at_hotmail.com>
> To: <discuss-sudbury-model_at_sudval.org>
> Sent: Thursday, January 19, 2006 5:04 PM
> Subject: Re: [Discuss-sudbury-model] scientific backing of Sudbury
>
>
>> Of course you can give scientific backing about the effects of regular
>> school!!! You can study drop out rates, college graduation rates,
>> careers
>> entered, teen pregnancy rates, rate of drug use by category, suicide
> rates,
>> and a host of other objective statistics. There are a lot of things that
>> can be relatively easily measured. I'd be very interested to find out if
>> those numbers are better/worse at a democratic school. I've read "Legacy
> of
>> Trust" and very much liked it. However, similar stories can be found
> about
>> people who attend any kind of school.
>>
>> A very interesting study was done on children who lived in a "school
> choice"
>> district. Those children whose parents tried to get them into the "good
>> school" did measurably better, whether or not they actually got in. The
>> study was described in "Freakonomics" (a very fun book).
>>
>> sam
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "David Rovner" <rovners_at_netvision.net.il>
>> To: <discuss-sudbury-model_at_sudval.org>
>> Sent: Wednesday, January 18, 2006 5:45 AM
>> Subject: Re: [Discuss-sudbury-model] scientific backing of Sudbury
>>
>>
>> >
>> > Dear Sandra,
>> >
>> > I think you should reformulate your request. Can you give scientific
>> > backing
>> > to a "regular" school ?
>> > I think a good or a bad education and/or schooling are very difficult
>> > things
>> > to demonstrate scientifically if at all.
>> > It is more of a social and philosophical approach. Still there have
>> > been
>> > some attempts to find out the effects on children of Sudbury education.
>> > For
>> > instance, "Legacy of Trust: Life After the Sudbury Valley School
>> > Experience," or "The Pursuit of Happiness: The Lives of Sudbury Valley
>> > Alumni" -- "what becomes of students who attended Sudbury Valley as
>> > they
>> > pursue their lives as adults? This book explores the lives of former
>> > students who spent their formative years at the school. It examines in
>> > depth
>> > their values, their character, and their careers, drawing extensively
>> > on
>> > their own words. A unique contribution to the literature that evaluates
>> > schools and educational philosophies."
>> >
>> > See: http://www.sudval.org/02_book_06.html .
>> > I would also suggest to take a look at,
>> > http://www.educationfutures.org/
> ,
>> > for instance.
>> >
>> > Cheers,
>> > ~ David
>> >
>> >
>> > ----- Original Message -----
>> > From: "Marc en Sandra" <marc.san_at_tiscali.be>
>> > To: <discuss-sudbury-model_at_sudval.org>
>> > Sent: Wednesday, January 18, 2006 12:02 PM
>> > Subject: [Discuss-sudbury-model] scientific backing of Sudbury
>> >
>> >
>> >>
>> >> Hi,
>> >> I'm a member of a new startup group in Brussels (Belgium), we would
> like
>> > to
>> >> create a Sudbury school in our area and are working hard on this. One
> of
>> > the
>> >> things coming up in the process is: have any scientific studies been
>> >> conducted on the positive effects on children of Sudbury education (I
>> > mean,
>> >> in terms of learning success, socialization, development of
>> > responsibility,
>> >> values, anything). We as starters feel certain enough about the
> enormous
>> >> potential of Sudbury for our kids, but there is of course 'the
>> >> others':
>> >> critical outsiders, anxious and doubting parents, and especially local
>> >> education authorities to whom we will have to go and explain about our
>> >> project somewhere in the near future. It would be a great help if we
>> >> could
>> >> provide some outside evidence that 'Sudbury works' and not only our
>> >> own
>> >> conviction.
>> >> I also see this in a lager sense: in fact I am gathering material from
>> >> psychologists and other scientists that supports the ideas that are
>> >> fundamental to Sudbury (e.g. concepts of 'learned helplessness' and
>> >> 'intrinsic motivation', publications of John Holt etc.).
>> >> Does anyone have any interesting information about this?
>> >> Thanks in advance,
>> >> Sandra Roobaert
>
> _______________________________________________
> Discuss-sudbury-model mailing list
> Discuss-sudbury-model_at_sudval.org
> http://www.sudval.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/discuss-sudbury-model
>
Received on Sat Jan 21 2006 - 03:44:50 EST

This archive was generated by hypermail 2.2.0 : Mon Jun 04 2007 - 00:03:14 EDT