Re: [Discuss-sudbury-model] Better than thou? Well, yes

From: Ryan Singer <ryan.singer_at_gmail.com>
Date: Mon Oct 10 12:59:00 2005

How exactly would you want the topic of elitism to be approached?

What is Sudbury more of than public school?

I would argue describing Sudbury as more *anything* is against the point.
Sudbury is not a system. It is simply a useful way of talking about the
individual children at the school. It is a collection of people, bound
together because they are attending the same place, who each get to guide
their own development and participate in what ever governance of themselves
is justified. That;s it. It isn't more X, or less Y, it is just people free
to live their lives.

Public school is not free. You have to ask to use the restroom Sr year of
highschool at 18 years old. If you can't afford to send your kids to a
school that is free, you should evaluate why you are sending your kids to
school at all. Perhaps you should instead allow them to have their time to
themselves, and help them attend any extra-curricular activities they want
to be exposed to peers (sports, community theatre, study groups for
standardized testing for college, etc). They might not spend as much time
traditionally studying as they do at school, but they will grow up happier
and smarter.

On 10/10/05, cheryl huff <chuff57_at_earthlink.net> wrote:
>
> One thing I haven't seen addressed amidst all the ideology in this forum
> is
> the inherent elitism of a private school with limited enrollment. I know
> there are participants who no doubt make sacrifices to have their children
> in these schools, but there are people who, regardless of how much they
> want more than the public school system for their children, cannot afford
> either geographically or financially to have their children in a SVS
> environment, or to create one. In my experience this is more of a deterent
> than being "philosophically ready for a place as brutally honest as a
> Sudbury school".
>
> cheryl huff
> chuff57_at_earthlink.net
>
>
> > [Original Message]
> > From: Scott David Gray <sgray_at_sudval.org>
> > To: <discuss-sudbury-model_at_sudval.org>
> > Date: 10/10/2005 11:23:07 AM
> > Subject: Re: [Discuss-sudbury-model] Better than thou? Well, yes
> >
> > A person who cannot respect themselves and others enough to
> > hear someone else's thoughts -- stated politely and
> > respectfully, but honestly and without pretense -- without
> > reading it as 'elitist arrogance,' may not be in the target
> > audience of people who are philosophically ready for a place
> > as brutally honest as a Sudbury school.
> >
> > That said, every 'movement' is served by people who can
> > gently, carefully persuade others who might initially reject
> > it to give the movement a second look. But it also requires
> > people who can unambiguously and without apology argue for
> > and defend the ideology. Both on positive grounds -- what is
> > right with the idea, and on negative grounds -- why people
> > should move away from what they are already doing.
> >
> > I've long argued that the civil rights movement of the 60s
> > required *both* the gentle words of ministers like Doctor
> > King, and the fear instilled by the words of persons like
> > Malcom X, in order to make headway. It takes all kinds to
> > make a world. There doesn't have to be just one 'right' way
> > to talk about the school -- and given how varied people in
> > the world are, it's a darn good thing that we have advocates
> > around the world with all sorts of different styles of
> > presentation.
> >
> > On Mon, 10 Oct 2005, Bendymind wrote:
> >
> > > Motive is everything. Do you revel in the failure of others because it
> makes
> > > you feel better about yourself or do you respect and want to raise
> them
> up
> > > in pursuit of reform that is actually just? If your elitist arrogance
> turns
> > > the unenlightened away it is detrimental to the cause and absolutely
> > > dishonorable. It hurts to have your world view shattered and those who
> are
> > > actually interested in affecting a change should be aware and
> consistently
> > > vigilant about where the other person needs to be met and what it will
> take
> > > to get them to understand.
> > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > The Sudbury model *is* clearly better than the mainstream education
> > > > model and most alternative models. There is no dishonor in pointing
> > > > this out confidently.
> > > >
> > > > People who are doing something better than the norm ought to have
> the
> > > > confidence and the courage to say so.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > ~Woty
> >
> > --
> >
> > --Scott David Gray
> > reply to: sgray_at_sudval.org
> > http://www.unseelie.org/
> > ============================================================
> > To believe something is to believe that it is true;
> > therefore a reasonable person believes each of his beliefs
> > to be true; yet experience has taught him to expect that
> > some of his beliefs, he knows not which, will turn out to be
> > false. A reasonable person believes, in short, that each of
> > his beliefs is true and that some of them are false. I, for
> > one, had expected better of reasonable persons.
> >
> > -- W.V. Quine
> > ============================================================
> >
> > _______________________________________________
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> > Discuss-sudbury-model_at_sudval.org
> > http://www.sudval.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/discuss-sudbury-model
>
>
>
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--
_________________
Ryan Singer
Received on Mon Oct 10 2005 - 12:58:16 EDT

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