Re: [Discuss-sudbury-model] Extreme examples of traditional schools

From: Scott David Gray <>
Date: Thu Oct 6 15:18:01 2005

I've heard this argument; that military school is more
humane than 'humanistic' schools where there is a 'fun,
positive' atmosphere.

The argument goes, that at *least* in a military school they
are telling you *straight* what is expected of you, and they
are only touching your body -- not your soul or sense of

Having never been in a military school, I don't feel
comfortable agreeing or disagreeing with this statement.
But I do want to agree with Woty's sentiments -- one of the
most painful aspects of my "humanistic" schooling was the
feeling that there was something wrong with *me* because I
didn't find the "humanistic" approach fun, positive, or
consensual (heck, think about the word 'consent' -- I want
to be active in my life, not to passively consent).

On Thu, 6 Oct 2005, Woty wrote:

> Conventional schools make no bones about compelling children to do
> things. Humanistic schools compel children to pretend, and often to
> believe, that they are actually consenting, and are actually
> respected, and that the people in charge actually know and care
> what's best for the captive children. The children are lead to expect
> just treatment, and are then betrayed and badly mislead about justice
> and freedom.
> In other words -- in conventional schools, children are allowed to
> hate what they are compelled to do and no one insists to them that
> they are actually experiencing a fun, positive atmosphere. And people
> are far less likely to get offended and angry when a child doesn't
> want to do a carefully planned fun project about trees or participate
> in a fun group baking project.
> ~Woty
> On Oct 6, 2005, at 9:31, Mark MacFadyen wrote:
> > I've been reading some of the archives and noticed the examples of
> > traditional schooling are really extreme. Some of these schools
> > sound like they're right out of the dark ages. I teach in a privite
> > traditional school; however, we are very humanistic in our
> > approach, and I do a lot of project based learning. Kids go to the
> > bathroom whenever they like, and there is a fun, positive
> > atmosphere about the school. We help each other, learn together
> > cooperatively. Still, report cards, evaluating children, and many
> > other aspects of my traditional school are absolutely wrong. I know
> > my school crushes creativity, it is the worst possible model for
> > the education of children. But I want to make the point that, well,
> > traditional school doesn't have to = hell.
> >
> > Mark

--Scott David Gray
reply to:
A long habit of not thinking a thing wrong gives it a
superficial appearance of being right.
-- Thomas Paine
Received on Thu Oct 06 2005 - 15:16:29 EDT

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