RE: [Discuss-sudbury-model] Some facts

From: Marilu Diaz <madiaz_at_puertorico.fcb.com>
Date: Fri Apr 8 17:02:01 2005

Why don't we get the kids to discuss on all this b.s.??? I'm starting to
believe that freedom is like religion and politics; a neverending topic
that we are better off not discussing...

-----Original Message-----
From: discuss-sudbury-model-admin_at_sudval.org
[mailto:discuss-sudbury-model-admin_at_sudval.org]On Behalf Of David Rovner
Sent: Friday, April 08, 2005 4:15 PM
To: discuss-sudbury-model_at_sudval.org
Subject: Re: [Discuss-sudbury-model] Some facts

Thanks Scott for your response but, do little children discern when somebody
is forcing, pushing, urging, cajoling or bribing them into learning or doing
something ?

And, I think Sudbury Schools do have a doctrine. The books published by The
Sudbury Valley School Press are kind of a doctrine. They are kind of a
formal definition. Don't you think so ?

~ David

----- Original Message -----
From: "Scott David Gray" <sgray_at_sudval.org>
To: "Discuss-Sudbury-Model Mailing List" <discuss-sudbury-model_at_sudval.org>
Sent: Friday, April 08, 2005 5:28 PM
Subject: RE: [Discuss-sudbury-model] Some facts
>
> To speak straight to David Rovner's repeated question:
>
> The one occasion I can think of in which a brand new staff
> member did something like this, was over 20 years ago. The
> staff member paraded a cow's skull through the school,
> announcing that he was going to dissect it. For the record,
> students and others advised him in a very gentle way that
> what he did felt more than a little pedantic and insulting.
> He recognized it, and never pulled that sort of stunt again.
>
> Instances of rudeness are generally handled personally, by
> people trying to help others to find a way to coexist with
> the rest of the community. To be sure, the community does
> have options if such actions are overt and cannot be curbed
> socially. For example, the staff member could be brought
> before the Judicial Committee for infringement of rights; or
> his/her behavior could be investigated by the School
> Meeting's ombudsman.
>
> As in any culture, if a person inadvertedly misunderstands
> the culture and does something rude, people try first to
> resolve the issue in a manner that avoids future
> embarassment or personality conflict.
>
> Just to remind people -- students and staff at Sudbury
> Valley are equal before the law. There is no need for a
> special written rule against a staff member cajoling
> students, because there is already a charge in the lawbook
> which states that "no one may knowingly infringe on anyone's
> right to exist peaceably at school, free of verbal or
> physical harassment."
>
> --
>
> --Scott David Gray

>
>
----- Original Message -----
From: "David Rovner" <rovners_at_netvision.net.il>
To: <discuss-sudbury-model_at_sudval.org>
Sent: Friday, April 08, 2005 5:40 PM
Subject: Re: [Discuss-sudbury-model] Some facts

>
>
> The issue was "encouragment", Alan.
>
> I wrote:
>
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: David Rovner
> > > To: discuss-sudbury-model_at_sudval.org
> > > Sent: Monday, April 04, 2005 11:36 AM
> > > Subject: Re: [Discuss-sudbury-model] Encouragment.
>
> > > And, if somebody do tell other people what to do,
> > > does he/she get a fine ?
> > > he/she doesn't get elected next term ?
> > > the parlament scolds him/her ?
> > > he/she feels he/she failed ?
> > > etc., etc., etc.
> > > What happens ?
> > > If something happens, at all.
> > >
> > > ~ David
> > >
>
> meaning, how does the whole "system" work ?
> how it is done ?
>
> 1. Who made the decision, first and in each school, that -- "nobody will
> encourage others 'coercive-encouragment'" (I was coerced to invent this
> concept) ?
>
> 2. Who will make the decision that -- somebody has 'encouraged' someone
else
> 'coercive-encouragment' ?
>
> 3. Is encouraging 'coercive-encouragment' somebody -- a 'transgression' ?
>
> 4. If encouraging 'coercive-encouragment' somebody is a 'transgression' --
> who will bring the 'transgressor' before court ?
>
> 5. What is/are the penalty/ies by law -- for 'encouraging'
> 'coercive-encouragment' ?
>
> 6. If there is/are a penalty/ies by law for 'encouraging'
> 'coercive-encouragment' -- have this/these penalty/ies been enforced
> occasionally ?
>
> ~ David
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Alan Klein" <alan_at_klein.net>
> To: <discuss-sudbury-model_at_sudval.org>
> Sent: Friday, April 08, 2005 2:44 PM
> Subject: RE: [Discuss-sudbury-model] Some facts
>
>
> > SchoolMeetingSchoolAssemblyandGovernmentalAuthorities
> >
> > ~Alan Klein
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: David Rovner
> > In "one word":
> > who sets the standards, and how standards are set ?
> > >
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "Scott David Gray" <sgray_at_sudval.org>
> > > To: "Discuss-Sudbury-Model Mailing List"
> > <discuss-sudbury-model_at_sudval.org>
> > > Sent: Friday, April 08, 2005 4:38 AM
> > > Subject: [Discuss-sudbury-model] Some facts
> > >
> > > >
> > > > 2) No, Sudbury staff don't actively advertise potential
> > > > activities for students. We don't say things to students
> > > > that an adult wouldn't happily say to an adult in a similar
> > > > relationship. We *certainly* never announce to a mass of
> > > > people something as artificial as "I am going to be working
> > > > in the darkroom at X time. Anyone who wants to join me is
> > > > welcome to do so." On the other hand, I might quietly
> > > > mention to a kid who has *already* expressed an interest in
> > > > working with me, that X time would be good for me because
> > > > I'm working then anyway.
> > > >
> > > > 6) Sudbury Schools *have* no doctrine. No formal definition
> > > > of a Sudbury School exists, anywhere, to my knowledge. On
> > > > the other hand, different people involved in schools define
> > > > key elements of what they are doing. And different schools
> > > > choose to have associations with one another. There are
> > > > several schools that Sudbury Valley keeps an association
> > > > with, and several that we do not keep a collegial
> > > > association with because their philosophies and aims are too
> > > > far from ours. And most of the schools that we keep
> > > > associations with *themselves* keep associations with other
> > > > schools -- which may or may not overlap to a greater or
> > > > lesser degree with our list.
> > > >
> > > > --Scott David Gray

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Received on Fri Apr 08 2005 - 17:01:32 EDT

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