RE: [Discuss-sudbury-model] stories about graduates

From: Iederwijs Soest <info_at_iederwijssoest.nl>
Date: Mon Jul 26 13:14:00 2004

Dear all,

Although we have been quite active already for some time on the Demstart-up
from Sudbury Schools, I might introduce myself to this open forum to the
ones that don't know me. I am Christel Hartkamp-Bakker, 43 years old and
together with my husband Peter cofounder of Iederwijs Soest, inspired by
Sudbury Valley. We have three kids, all attending our school which have
started 1,5 years ago. Our school is growing fast, with around 50 pupils to
start with in august. It is the best experience I have had in my life and it
brings me, and our entire family back to the real value of life !!

I have spoken to Mimsy Sadofski at the Sudbury Schools Meeting in Europe
(Überlingen, Germany) on the 16-18th of July and asked her about this topic.
She told me that the Sudbury Valley school is about to publish a new study,
like Legacy of Trust this fall. So, we just have to wait a little...

Greetings from the Netherlands,

Christel A. Hartkamp
Iederwijs Soest "de Ruimte"
Insingerstraat 39-53
3766 MA Soest
The Netherlands
035-6015321
www.iederwijssoest.nl

Peter Hartkamp
Iederwijs Soest
06-18770281
www.iederwijssoest.nl

-----Oorspronkelijk bericht-----
Van: discuss-sudbury-model-admin_at_sudval.org
[mailto:discuss-sudbury-model-admin_at_sudval.org]Namens Ann Ide
Verzonden: maandag 26 juli 2004 17:58
Aan: discuss-sudbury-model_at_sudval.org
Onderwerp: Re: [Discuss-sudbury-model] stories about graduates

This is good. How about some more recent examples, too ? Legacy of Trust
is pretty old already.

And, Carol, what is your son doing professionally now ? In how many, and
what ways would he be considered "successful" ?

Ann
----- Original Message -----
From: "David Rovner" <rovners_at_netvision.net.il>
To: <discuss-sudbury-model_at_sudval.org>
Sent: Monday, July 26, 2004 11:44 AM
Subject: [Discuss-sudbury-model] stories about graduates

>
> You can also read stories about graduates in, Legacy of Trust -- Life
After
> the Sudbury Valley Experience http://www.sudval.org/presspics/legacy.jpg
> What becomes of students who attended Sudbury Valley as they pursue their
> lives as adults? Here is a comprehensive study of the personal and
> professional histories of 188 former students, along with extensive
comments
> on how they feel the school influenced their lives. Also included are the
> results of three earlier studies.
> http://www.sudval.org/books.html
>
> What former students have to say
> SVS 25th Anniversary Retrospective: Five Former Students, Where They Are
and
> How They Got There A lively panel presentation, including a question and
> answer session with the audience. The alumni range in ages from 22-36, and
> include a physician, a graphic designer, a mathematics professor, a
> musician, and a dramatist (audio track of video tape by the same name).
> An Evening with Three Alumni Former students reminisce about their life at
> Sudbury Valley School, and what they have been doing since they left; with
> questions from the audience (audio track of video tape by the same name).
>
> ~ David
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Carol Hughes" <hughes0005_at_comcast.net>
> To: <discuss-sudbury-model_at_sudval.org>
> Sent: Monday, July 26, 2004 4:19 PM
> Subject: Re: [Discuss-sudbury-model] Philosophy (was Paradigms)
>
>
> > What a great idea. Let's hear stories about graduates out there. I'll
> > start. My son, on several occasions thought that a professor's grade
was
> > wrong on an exam, walked into the office and explained why and got his
> grade
> > changed. He also determined that he concentrated much better on his
> courses
> > when he didn't take notes. Did he graduate? Were the first tests he
ever
> > had in college? Yes and yes. Did he takes SAT's? No. Didn't need to.
> I
> > think it is impossible to teach responsility in an artificial setting.
If
> > the results of a decision are not real, then the investment in the
process
> > isn't real either. Did he hang in there when 90% of the student body
left
> > due to an unfair withdrawel of accreditation? Yes. Someone asked me if
I
> > was proud of him for getting a college degree. My response was, no, I'm
> > proud of him for following his dream. Well, I don't want to hog all the
> air
> > space in here. Would love to hear from others.
> > Carol
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Ann Ide" <ann.ide_at_rcn.com>
> > To: <discuss-sudbury-model_at_sudval.org>
> > Sent: Monday, July 26, 2004 10:01 AM
> > Subject: Re: [Discuss-sudbury-model] Philosophy (was Paradigms)
> >
> >
> > > That's the conventional paradigm, all right. So, how can we address
> those
> > > concerns without challenging them in such a way that it only brings
out
> > > defenses ? What examples and information do we know to counterpoint ?
> Do
> > > we have "successful" graduates ? It would be really helpful to be
able
> to
> > > share those stories. Do we have different statistics ? The more
> informed
> > > we are the better we'll be able to educate others effectively.; don't
> you
> > > think?
> > >
> > > Who do people think are responsible for development of social skills,
> > > critical thinking skills, communication skills, creativity, self
> > motivation
> > > and responsibility, ability to work independently and with
teams......?
> > > It takes more than academics and good character to succeed in the
world.
> > > How about we get people thinking about the importance of these traits
> and
> > > how it is lacking in public schools and nurtured in Sudbury models ?
> > > Actually, I recall our old public school even having curriculum for
> > > character develpment and some of the skills I mentioned. But they
would
> > > "teach" them so artificially ! They had kids sitting around in a
circle
> > > being asked questions or put through exercises totally bored. You
can't
> > > schedule training for these things into a 1/2 hour slot once a week !
> > >
> > > It's so interesting to watch the difference between my sons' play with
> SVS
> > > vs. public school friends. With their public school friends, I see
they
> > > have one or two things they have in common that they like to do
> together.
> > > When they tire of that, they start with the "What do you want to do? "
> "
> > I
> > > don't know. What do you want to do?" And it falls apart. I never
see
> > > that with their SVS friends. There is always a beautiful flow of
> > > conversation and/or activity. They could just go on forever; as they
> > often
> > > do with ongoing "sleepovers". Have others seen this ? Oh, and another
> > thing
> > > that really bugs me ! In our area, public school kids schedule
> > "playdates"
> > > and they only have one friend over at a time so it will "work" ! AH
> > > !!!!!!!!! If Jesse calls his friend and s/he already has a friend
> over,
> > > s/he actually says he can't come over. How pathetic. With SVS
friends,
> > the
> > > more the merrier. I can just see these kids as adults in the
> workplace,
> > > waiting to be told what to do ( and hoping it's not much ); or in a
> > meeting,
> > > going "What should we do? " " I don't know. What do you think?" And
> > will
> > > they be allowed to only work with one person at at time ??? Someone
> > should
> > > make a movie showing the crossover from public school behaviors and
> > > activities into the typical, inefffective workplace.
> > >
> > > Ann
> > >
> > > ( How's that, Carol ? I used a story ! :) )
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "Sally Rosloff" <sallyr_at_socal.rr.com>
> > > To: <discuss-sudbury-model_at_sudval.org>
> > > Sent: Sunday, July 25, 2004 4:20 PM
> > > Subject: Re: [Discuss-sudbury-model] Philosophy (was Paradigms)
> > >
> > >
> > > > Carol wrote:
> > > > "When did college become the one and only indicator of a successful
> > > > education? It is as though schools exist to feed consumers into
other
> > > > schools, and how many of the graduates become part of this system of
> > > > creating more and more students? People almost never ask what kind
of
> > > human
> > > > being your child is. Just, what grade are they in, and where did
they
> > go
> > > to
> > > > college. How silly this is. In your last 25 or 30 exchanges with
> > adults,
> > > > how many of them talked about college or what their degree is in?
> When
> > do
> > > > we get to the real stuff? How confident, competent, compassionate
and
> > > > productive are you? That's what I want to know. "
> > > >
> > > > "What are Schools For? Holistic Education in American Culture" is a
> > great
> > > > book by Ron Miller that traces the history of education in this
> > > > country. It provides great information and context for how we've
> gotten
> > > to
> > > > where we are today, including the emphasis on a college education
and
> on
> > > > education as memorizing and feeding back and doing what you're told.
> > > >
> > > > Some answers out there that I've noticed to your questions above:
> > > >
> > > > College means the best chance at a good job and material success and
> > > > therefore happiness, and parents want to see their kids happy.
> Parents
> > > > hear statistics all the time on the more education (meaning the more
> > > > degrees), the more money you make.
> > > >
> > > > The parents job is to raise their children to be responsible adults,
> > which
> > > > is accomplished by making sure they follow all the rules of the
> > > traditional
> > > > system.
> > > >
> > > > The school's job is to teach academics, leave character development
> > > > (compassion, cooperation, kindness, thoughtfulness, confidence,
etc.)
> to
> > > > me, the parent.
> > > >
> > > > To be successful (earn a good living) you need skills and training
> which
> > > > you get through being taught in school and college.
> > > >
> > > > People do not ask what kind of human being your child is because
that
> is
> > > > seen as outside the job of schools, that is something developed in
the
> > > home
> > > > and church and community, etc. and at school only as a byproduct of
> > > > extracurricular activities if at all. Different groups have
different
> > > > ideas about how human beings should be but may agree on what
teaching
> > > > academics is.
> > > >
> > > > All of the above are in line with the discussion on paradigms
because
> > > these
> > > > answers arise from one paradigm while our answers arise from
another.
> > > That
> > > > is why Ron Miller talks about need for transformation rather than
> > reform.
> > > >
> > > > Sally
>
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Received on Mon Jul 26 2004 - 13:13:29 EDT

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