RE: [Discuss-sudbury-model] Re: [Discuss-sudbury-model]

From: wmvh <>
Date: Sat Apr 3 07:34:00 2004

Being raised in a traditional school, I forgot most of the things presented me in my classes. But somewhere along the way as an adult I learned how to find out how to get the information I need. I agree with Scott: if you're motivated, and can sort out the non-essentials, it is easy to learn new things.

The worst thing that traditional schools do is to de-motivate students to enjoy learning once they become adults. They come to equate math and history and literature, etc with mindless tedium.

To Sam, I would suggest to look at how YOU learn new things as an adult. When I want to do something new or understand something, I read, talk to people that I feel know the subject, and DO, making mistakes and correcting them. When I learn this way, I really take on the skill, it stays with me. Compare that to traditional schools.

William Van Horn

 --- On Wed 03/31, Kelly Reynolds < > wrote:
From: Kelly Reynolds [mailto:]
Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2004 19:37:21 -0500
Subject: RE: [Discuss-sudbury-model] Re: [Discuss-sudbury-model]

There are a million things I didn't learn that I later needed (I was<br>traditionally educated). I needed skills in cooking, cleaning, baby care,<br>gardening, natural medicine, finances, and car repair. I have learned these<br>things lately, but the bad thing about my education is that it didn't<br>prepare me to be an independent learner. It has taken a few years of<br>adulthood to learn how to get info and how to teach myself new skills. I<br>think kids at Sudbury will have many things they need to know that they<br>didn't learn from 6-18 years old (everyone will, surely), but they will know<br>how to go about learning when they realize which skills and information<br>they need.<br><br>Kelly<br><br>&gt; -----Original Message-----<br>&gt; From:<br>&gt; []On Behalf Of Sam Patton<br>&gt; Sent: Wednesday, March 31, 2004 5:11 PM<br>&gt; To:<br>&gt; Subject: RE: [Discuss-sudbury-model] Re: [Di
scuss-sudbury-model]<br>&gt;<br>&gt;<br>&gt; Have you, or others you know, found that you hadn't learned<br>&gt; something that<br>&gt; was needed later in life? I'm thinking specifically of something like<br>&gt; calculus or algebra. Do a lot of the students (is that the right<br>&gt; term?) at<br>&gt; SVS choose to learn that kind of thing?<br>&gt;<br>&gt; Another question: you are free to just sort of sit around and<br>&gt; hang out. Do<br>&gt; some students choose to spend their entire school experience doing pretty<br>&gt; much nothing? What do you find motivated you?<br>&gt;<br>&gt; sam<br>&gt;<br>&gt;<br>&gt; &gt;From: Scott David Gray &lt;;<br>&gt; &gt;Reply-To:<br>&gt; &gt;To:<br>&gt; &gt;Subject: RE: [Discuss-sudbury-model] Re: [Discuss-sudbury-model]<br>&gt; &gt;Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2004 08:23:39 -0500 (EST)<br>&gt; &gt;<br>&gt; &gt;I have often looked back at my life, certain that it would<br>&gt; &gt;be a less
 happy one had I not attended SVS. Of course this<br>&gt; &gt;is subjective -- I can't prove what would / could have been.<br>&gt; &gt;But I know that I am not the only SVS alumnus who looks back<br>&gt; &gt;at the path he was on in traditional school (self-hatred,<br>&gt; &gt;boredom which was blamed on the self rather than the<br>&gt; &gt;restraints around, total disrespect) and thinks that SVS<br>&gt; &gt;almost certainly saved him from a life of crime,<br>&gt; &gt;mind-altering addictions, and bitterness.<br>&gt; &gt;<br>&gt; &gt;On the more positive side... Other alumni who've gone on to<br>&gt; &gt;college and I have talked about that experience. For each of<br>&gt; &gt;us, we clearly found college easier than our contemporaries<br>&gt; &gt;from traditional school (not that college matters, but hey).<br>&gt; &gt;I think that there are two reasons. First, each of us<br>&gt; &gt;watched our peers swimming waiting to be told when/how to<br>&gt; &gt;get their readings / papers / etcetera done -- while ea
ch of<br>&gt; &gt;us were used to being responsible for ourselves and<br>&gt; &gt;therefore not waiting to be handheld. Second, each of us was<br>&gt; &gt;able to take college with a sense of humor -- we all knew<br>&gt; &gt;that the grades and tests were meaningless -- only games to<br>&gt; &gt;be played or ignored, rather than things over which to tear<br>&gt; &gt;ourselves apart. These experiences in college also seem to<br>&gt; &gt;be mirrored by alumni who've gone on to various professions<br>&gt; &gt;-- that they had a better sense of what was / wasn't<br>&gt; &gt;important, and took charge of their needs themselves.<br>&gt; &gt;<br>&gt; &gt;Any disadvantages? Again, there's a problem trying to<br>&gt; &gt;imagine what could have / would have been. But I guess that<br>&gt; &gt;there is one disadvantage. Given the innate disrespect in<br>&gt; &gt;which children are held in our wider culture, I know that I<br>&gt; &gt;am not the only alumnus of the school who has lost friends<br>&gt; &gt;in the wider com
 ty because we were unwilling to tolerate<br>&gt; &gt;injustice. This actually tends to extend beyond injustice<br>&gt; &gt;to kids -- SVS alumni tend to look with horror on injustice<br>&gt; &gt;of all sorts, and so are much less prone to shrug and say<br>&gt; &gt;'that's life' -- as such, SVS alumni are prone to have more<br>&gt; &gt;people who deeply like and respect them, but also more<br>&gt; &gt;people who disrespect them and think of them as arrogant or<br>&gt; &gt;foreward because SVS alumni are generally more willing to<br>&gt; &gt;'shake things up.'<br>&gt; &gt;<br>&gt; &gt;On Tue, 30 Mar 2004, Sam Patton wrote:<br>&gt; &gt;<br>&gt; &gt; &gt; I completely agree that badly is in the eye of the beholder. My<br>&gt; &gt;definition<br>&gt; &gt; &gt; would probably include whether they were happy after<br>&gt; graduating. Were<br>&gt; &gt;they<br>&gt; &gt; &gt; able to feel fulfilled and satisified living in the post-SVS<br>&gt; world. In<br>&gt; &gt;SVS,<br>&gt; &gt; &gt; everyone seems to be taken
 seriously and has a voice that is heard and<br>&gt; &gt; &gt; respected. Sadly, that is considerably different than most<br>&gt; of society.<br>&gt; &gt; &gt;<br>&gt; &gt; &gt; I'd love to hear how SVS prepared you for post-SVS life.<br>&gt; What have you<br>&gt; &gt;done<br>&gt; &gt; &gt; post-SVS?<br>&gt; &gt; &gt;<br>&gt; &gt; &gt; sam<br>&gt; &gt; &gt;<br>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;From: &quot;Tay Arrow Sherman&quot; &lt;;<br>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;Reply-To:<br>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;To:<br>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;Subject: [Discuss-sudbury-model] Re: [Discuss-sudbury-model]<br>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2004 17:57:38 -0500<br>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;<br>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;Hi Sam,<br>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;<br>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;Turning out badly is very much in the eye of the beholder, isnt it?<br>&gt; &gt;Whats<br>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;your definition, can we use that?<br>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;<br>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;If you'd like t
o ask me about how SVS prepared me for<br>&gt; post-SVS life, I<br>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;would be happy to have extended dialogue with you.<br>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;<br>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;Peace,<br>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;Tay Arrow Sherman, SVS graduating class of 1996<br>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;<br>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;<br>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;<br>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;Is there any information about people who went through a government<br>&gt; &gt;type<br>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;school or any other type of school and turned out badly? Pick any<br>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;definition<br>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;of badly you'd like :)<br>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;<br>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;~ David ;)<br>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;<br>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;<br>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;----- Original Message -----<br>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;From: &quot;Sam Patton&quot; &lt;;<br>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;To: &lt;;<br>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2004 3:13 AM<br>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;Subject: [Discuss-sudbury-model] Sudbu
ry Valley graduates who fail<br>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;<br>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;<br>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; Is there any information about people who went through a Sudbury<br>&gt; &gt;Valley<br>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;type<br>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; school and turned out badly? Pick any definition of badly you'd<br>&gt; &gt;like :)<br>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;<br>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; Sudbury Valley sounds too good to be true. I don't have<br>&gt; any kids,<br>&gt; &gt;but<br>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;I'm<br>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; already arguing with my girlfriend about whether this would be a<br>&gt; &gt;good<br>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;way<br>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;to<br>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; educate our &quot;potential future&quot; children. One of the<br>&gt; things I'd like<br>&gt; &gt;to<br>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;know<br>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; is how the students turn out in later life. Do they miss out on<br>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;anything<br>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; that they really needed that a more traditional schoo
l wo
 uld have<br>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;provided?<br>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;<br>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; sam<br>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;--<br>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;___________________________________________________________<br>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;Sign-up for Ads Free at<br>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;<br>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;<br>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;_______________________________________________<br>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;Discuss-sudbury-model mailing list<br>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;<br>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;<br>&gt; &gt; &gt;<br>&gt; &gt; &gt; _________________________________________________________________<br>&gt; &gt; &gt; FREE pop-up blocking with the new MSN Toolbar get it now!<br>&gt; &gt; &gt;<br>&gt; &gt; &gt;<br>&gt; &gt; &gt; _______________________________________________<br>&gt; &gt; &gt; Discuss-sudbury-model mailing list<br>&gt; &gt; &gt; Di<br>&gt; &gt; &gt;<br>&gt; &gt; &gt;<br>&gt; &gt;<br>&gt; &gt;--<br>&gt; &gt;<br>&gt; &gt;--Scott David Gray<br>&gt; &gt;reply to:<br>&gt; &gt;<br>&gt; &gt;============================================================<br>&gt; &gt;If two men agree on everything, you may be sure that one of<br>&gt; &gt;them is doing the thinking.<br>&gt; &gt;<br>&gt; &gt;-- Lyndon Baines Johnson<br>&gt; &gt;============================================================<br>&gt; &gt;<br>&gt; &gt;_______________________________________________<br>&gt; &gt;Discuss-sudbury-model mailing list<br>&gt; &gt;<br>&gt; &gt;<br>&gt;<br>&gt; _________________________________________________________________<br>&gt; Check out MSN PC Safety &amp; Security to help ensure your PC is<br>&gt; protected and<br>&gt; safe. ht
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Received on Sat Apr 03 2004 - 07:33:09 EST

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