Re: [Discuss-sudbury-model] Complexity Interpretation...

From: Victoria Serda <vserda_at_sympatico.ca>
Date: Sun Dec 1 00:40:01 2002

Dear David,
Do you have a suggestion about how to operate a school that would have
at least nominal acceptance in society without government approval?
I have lived my life (whole 29 years!) trying to put my ideals into
practice, and have found that compromise is an unwelcome fact of life. I
think that compromise can sometimes be accorded with governments, as
long as the compromise doesn't compromise the principles! It is good to
keep in mind how far one wants to water down one's principles to fulfill
a goal, but what I meant is sometimes the goal is worth adding a little
water to the mix.
I also believe it is possible that two parties can make a compromise
fitting both viewpoints objectives without agreeing to a common
fundamental principle.
Ayn Rand appears to me to be arguing that she advocates anarchy, and
while I may agree with some of her views, since anarchy is not our
current system, I don't think it is practical to apply it to this
situation.
Victoria

David Rovner wrote:

> Victoria,What do you think about this?: "A compromise is an
> adjustment of conflicting claims by mutual concessions. This means
> that both parties to a compromise have some valid claim and some value
> to offer each other. And this means that both parties agree upon some
> fundamental principle which serves as a base for their deal."[. .
> .]"There can be no compromise between freedom and government controls;
> to accept "just a few controls" is to surrender the principle of
> inalienable individual rights and to substitute for it the principle
> of government's unlimited, arbitrary power, thus delivering oneself
> into gradual enslavement . . .[. . .]Today , however, when people
> speak of "compromise," what they mean is not a legitimate mutual
> concession or a trade, but precisely the betrayal of one's principles
> -- the unilateral surrender to any groundless, irrational claim . .
> .[. . .][Doesn't Life Require Compromise?, Ayn Rand - The Virtue of
> Selfishness, pg. 68] Atentamente,~ David
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Victoria Serda
> To: discuss-sudbury-model_at_sudval.org
> Sent: Saturday, November 30, 2002 11:41 PM
> Subject: Re: [Discuss-sudbury-model] Complexity
> Interpretation...
> Dear David,
> Yes, I do believe it is compromising. There is usually a
> compromise in how much to have societal approval for an
> enterprise, for the more societal approval, the more likely
> to have the ideas further spread. If the community doesn't
> support your ideas, there will be more struggle to exist and
> promulgate the ideas. The more energy it takes to exist, the
> less energy is left over to pursue the dissemination of
> these ideals. I think it is only natural, even when one
> believes in non-authoritarianism, to want to circulate ideas
> that people may possibly want to understand and consider.
> Therefore, each person or group must find their own place to
> put their mark on the line graph of following the ideals
> totally verses doing what is accepted in society.
> Victoria
>
> David Rovner wrote:
>
> > What do you mean by:>I think in this area, as in life, it
> > is important to balance extremes.<Is that compromising? ~
> > David
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: Victoria Serda
> > To: discuss-sudbury-model_at_sudval.org
> > Sent: Friday, November 29, 2002 8:25 PM
> > Subject: Re: [Discuss-sudbury-model] Complexity
> > Interpretation...
> > Dear Darren,
> > I am just finishing up my thesis on something
> > similar--how schools like SVS are optimal for
> > learning and producing the kind of citizens that
> > society needs. I also have experience starting
> > an SVS-type school.
> > I think in this area, as in life, it is
> > important to balance extremes. It is not
> > possible right now to have fully
> > non-authoritarian structures, because society is
> > authoritarian. Therefore, the goal should be to
> > minimize coercion and maximize freedom. In order
> > for a school to exist without being closed down
> > by the government, it has to follow the rules.
> > The end result of granting children a much
> > healthier option must be balanced with the
> > detriments to working in the current system.
> > Victoria Serda
> >
> >
> > Darren Stanley wrote:
> >
> > > Hello All! I am presently going through the
> > > numerous stories and articles that I have on
> > > SVS - shaped mostly through the writings found
> > > in the SVS books that are available to anyojne
> > > through the SVS website. As part of my PhD
> > > dissertation (in Education), I am attempting to
> > > show/illuminate how "schools" might be
> > > healthier in how they function, following the
> > > actions of SVS (as an example of what might be
> > > possible). SVS strikes me as akin to a deeply
> > > living, biological entity. Framed in this way,
> > > and using what researchers and scholars from a
> > > diversity of fields have had to say about
> > > complex systems, I wonder what might *in
> > > principle* be present to help make SVS *work*.
> > > It seems to me that there is plenty of
> > > diversity present; interactions across many
> > > time/space scales (e.g., no restrictions on
> > > age/subject/interest level). The types and
> > > strengths of interactions may bring forth a
> > > variety of different/novel emergent
> > > events...and so on... In my work in the
> > > non-profit health sector (another cap I wear),
> > > I have an implicit understanding of what a
> > > "healthy" organization might be like. From
> > > what I have read and know about SVS and other
> > > related matters, SVS is IMHO the epitomy of a
> > > healthy educational setting - speaking rather
> > > broadly. Here are some questions I've been
> > > pondering...any thoughts out there?!? The
> > > school seems to have this sort of
> > > "self-organizing" feature to it: no
> > > authoritarian leaders (leadership is
> > > shared/distributed?); no external constraints?
> > > but can there be NO external constraints?
> > > There are, of course, state regulations, but
> > > how or do these regulations play out? Or might
> > > it be better said that the school is
> > > "influenced" by state regulations? Is
> > > influence the same as coercion? Sorry for all
> > > the questions...I do have more tho', but I will
> > > stop there! On another note...I don't know if
> > > Daniel Greenberg is on this list, but I've
> > > recently read your/his essay on human
> > > interest. What a remarkable piece. Not only
> > > did it help to illuminate a completely new view
> > > of this phenomenon for me, I have also shared
> > > it with my work colleague who has in turn
> > > shared it with a number of other "dissatisfied
> > > suburban housewives" (her words, not mine). In
> > > every instance, everyone of these people "get
> > > it" and see how traditioanl schooling works so
> > > hard to ignore and work with the "interests" of
> > > others. thanks! Darren Darren
> > > StanleyUniversity of Alberta, CanadaPlexus
> > > Institute, Allentown, NJwww.plexusinstitute.org
> >
Received on Sun Dec 01 2002 - 00:39:14 EST

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