Re: [Discuss-sudbury-model] Complexity Interpretation...

From: Victoria Serda <vserda_at_sympatico.ca>
Date: Sun Dec 1 00:30:01 2002

Dear Joe,
You really believe that your government (I am Canadian) does what the
people want? Is that why George Bush got elected by cheating, then
started a war (maybe more) for oil, etc.?
I am glad that right now the Bush admin. allows schools like SVS to
exist, but in the future I am concerned that there, as here in Canada,
more tight controls may be placed as in Germany or other countries to
ensure that children learn what the government wants. Right now I don't
feel that the "authorities" are truly representing the people, and may
continue to take back the rights that had been previously accorded.
Victoria

Joe Jackson wrote:

> Fortunately, the existing Sudbury Model schools have found ways to
> exist as purely democratic (non-authoritarian) schools, mostly in
> communities that don't support the ideals. The energy is spent in
> startup; the nature of our American culture is that it takes a great
> deal more energy to shut something down than to block it from
> opening.And I don't necessarily agree that American culture is
> authoritarian per se. While there are structures and mechanisms built
> into our society and government that are *authorities*, they exist
> because we as a people put them there. And the fact that it is a
> reality in 99% of the cultures of the world that authoritarianism is
> an essential part of raising children, there is plenty of latitude in
> that as well as a healthy amount of respect for a parent's right to
> raise their children in the manner they wish in the U.S.joe jackson
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: discuss-sudbury-model-admin_at_sudval.org
> [mailto:discuss-sudbury-model-admin_at_sudval.org] On Behalf Of
> Victoria Serda
> Sent: Saturday, November 30, 2002 4:41 PM
> To: discuss-sudbury-model_at_sudval.org
> Subject: Re: [Discuss-sudbury-model] Complexity
> Interpretation...
>
> Dear David,
> Yes, I do believe it is compromising. There is usually a
> compromise in how much to have societal approval for an
> enterprise, for the more societal approval, the more likely
> to have the ideas further spread. If the community doesn't
> support your ideas, there will be more struggle to exist and
> promulgate the ideas. The more energy it takes to exist, the
> less energy is left over to pursue the dissemination of
> these ideals. I think it is only natural, even when one
> believes in non-authoritarianism, to want to circulate ideas
> that people may possibly want to understand and consider.
> Therefore, each person or group must find their own place to
> put their mark on the line graph of following the ideals
> totally verses doing what is accepted in society.
> Victoria
>
> David Rovner wrote:
>
> > What do you mean by:>I think in this area, as in life, it
> > is important to balance extremes.<Is that compromising? ~
> > David
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: Victoria Serda
> > To: discuss-sudbury-model_at_sudval.org
> > Sent: Friday, November 29, 2002 8:25 PM
> > Subject: Re: [Discuss-sudbury-model] Complexity
> > Interpretation...
> > Dear Darren,
> > I am just finishing up my thesis on something
> > similar--how schools like SVS are optimal for
> > learning and producing the kind of citizens that
> > society needs. I also have experience starting
> > an SVS-type school.
> > I think in this area, as in life, it is
> > important to balance extremes. It is not
> > possible right now to have fully
> > non-authoritarian structures, because society is
> > authoritarian. Therefore, the goal should be to
> > minimize coercion and maximize freedom. In order
> > for a school to exist without being closed down
> > by the government, it has to follow the rules.
> > The end result of granting children a much
> > healthier option must be balanced with the
> > detriments to working in the current system.
> > Victoria Serda
> >
> >
> > Darren Stanley wrote:
> >
> > > Hello All! I am presently going through the
> > > numerous stories and articles that I have on
> > > SVS - shaped mostly through the writings found
> > > in the SVS books that are available to anyojne
> > > through the SVS website. As part of my PhD
> > > dissertation (in Education), I am attempting to
> > > show/illuminate how "schools" might be
> > > healthier in how they function, following the
> > > actions of SVS (as an example of what might be
> > > possible). SVS strikes me as akin to a deeply
> > > living, biological entity. Framed in this way,
> > > and using what researchers and scholars from a
> > > diversity of fields have had to say about
> > > complex systems, I wonder what might *in
> > > principle* be present to help make SVS *work*.
> > > It seems to me that there is plenty of
> > > diversity present; interactions across many
> > > time/space scales (e.g., no restrictions on
> > > age/subject/interest level). The types and
> > > strengths of interactions may bring forth a
> > > variety of different/novel emergent
> > > events...and so on... In my work in the
> > > non-profit health sector (another cap I wear),
> > > I have an implicit understanding of what a
> > > "healthy" organization might be like. >From
> > > what I have read and know about SVS and other
> > > related matters, SVS is IMHO the epitomy of a
> > > healthy educational setting - speaking rather
> > > broadly. Here are some questions I've been
> > > pondering...any thoughts out there?!? The
> > > school seems to have this sort of
> > > "self-organizing" feature to it: no
> > > authoritarian leaders (leadership is
> > > shared/distributed?); no external constraints?
> > > but can there be NO external constraints?
> > > There are, of course, state regulations, but
> > > how or do these regulations play out? Or might
> > > it be better said that the school is
> > > "influenced" by state regulations? Is
> > > influence the same as coercion? Sorry for all
> > > the questions...I do have more tho', but I will
> > > stop there! On another note...I don't know if
> > > Daniel Greenberg is on this list, but I've
> > > recently read your/his essay on human
> > > interest. What a remarkable piece. Not only
> > > did it help to illuminate a completely new view
> > > of this phenomenon for me, I have also shared
> > > it with my work colleague who has in turn
> > > shared it with a number of other "dissatisfied
> > > suburban housewives" (her words, not mine). In
> > > every instance, everyone of these people "get
> > > it" and see how traditioanl schooling works so
> > > hard to ignore and work with the "interests" of
> > > others. thanks! Darren Darren
> > > StanleyUniversity of Alberta, CanadaPlexus
> > > Institute, Allentown, NJwww.plexusinstitute.org
> >
Received on Sun Dec 01 2002 - 00:29:49 EST

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