[Discuss-sudbury-model] Re: [Discuss-sudbury-model]definition of democracy

From: Louie Mahoney Cohn <louie4444_at_hotmail.com>
Date: Mon Oct 14 15:29:00 2002

Hello,
Can liberty and equality exist without democracy in an educational
environment? Is this perhaps a problem of democracy without a bill of
rights?
Peace,
Louie

>From: "Joseph Roach" <josroach_at_email.com>
>Reply-To: discuss-sudbury-model_at_sudval.org
>To: discuss-sudbury-model_at_sudval.org
>Subject: Re: [Discuss-sudbury-model]definition of democracy
>Date: Sun, 06 Oct 2002 17:02:23 -0500
>
>Hi Candy!
>
>We disagree. When I refer to "democracy," I am referring to a system or
>method of governing a group of people where all the people decide on how
>the group is governed. Democracy is a bad method of government if you want
>efficiency, but I see democracy as the best of choices to assure that each
>person has liberty, and that all the people in the group are recognized has
>being fundamentally equal as far as making rules and judging when rules are
>broken. I see liberty and equality as being necessary for education and
>happiness.
>
>We seem to agree somewhat on the goals, but we have very different ideas
>about democracy.
>
>Best regards,
>
>Joe Roach
>The New School
>
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: candy <highland_at_ruralnet.org>
>Date: Thu, 03 Oct 2002 19:11:54 -0400
>To: discuss-sudbury-model_at_sudval.org
>Subject: Re: [Discuss-sudbury-model]definition of democracy
>
>
> > Hi Joe,
> > I'm stuggling with what needs to be included in a definition of
> > democratic education in preparation for the IDEC in Albany. When you
> > say "democracy does not necessarily respect the rights of individuals or
> > minorities" it sounds like an oxymoron to me. Democracy MUST respect
> > the rights of individuals/minorities or it is not democracy by my
> > definition. I'm aware of abuses of individual rights which have
> > occurred in schools calling themselves "democratic", but I don't think
> > the fault is in the concept of democracy. Democratic school
> > communities view liberty for individuals and equality between school
> > members as intrinsic parts of what constitutes democracy. I don't
> > believe that democracy is ever an end in any case; rather it's a process
> > - a way of living that promotes individual development, diversity of
> > ideas, and free interactions among community members. Thanks for
> > listening - Candy Landvoigt
> >
> > Joseph Roach wrote:
> >
> > >Scott:
> > >
> > >Does this mean that democracy is the end itself? Or is there some
>other driving reason?
> > >
> > >I do not see democracy as a good end in itself, because democracy does
>not necessarily respect the rights of individuals or minorities. Tyranny
>can exist as easily in a democracy as in a monarchy.
> > >
> > >If the reason for education is to encourage liberty for individuals and
>equality between members of the school, then democracy is the best method
>of rule. Democracy, as an end in itself, is empty.
> > >
> > >David, was this what you were getting at?
> > >
> > >Best regards,
> > >
> > >Joe Roach
> > >The New School
> > >Newark, DE
> > >----- Original Message -----
> > >From: Scott David Gray <sgray_at_aramis.sudval.org>
> > >Date: Tue, 3 Sep 2002 11:38:13 -0400 (EDT)
> > >To: <discuss-sudbury-model_at_sudval.org>
> > >Subject: Re: [Discuss-sudbury-model]definition of democracy
> > >
> > >
> > >>On Tue, 3 Sep 2002, Default wrote:
> > >>
> > >>>would you kindly define democracy.
> > >>>
> > >>Many people would check a dictionary, but I can understand
> > >>the reason for your question. Many schools claim to be
> > >>democratic, but don't really mean it.
> > >>
> > >>The word "democracy" is rarely used in the context of
> > >>education to refer to actual government by the governed or
> > >>equality before the law.
> > >>
> > >>Anyway, here's the definition I get from dictionary.com --
> > >>which applies perfectly to any Sudbury Model school:
> > >>
> > >>>de·moc·ra·cy Pronunciation Key (d-mkr-s)
> > >>>n. pl. de·moc·ra·cies
> > >>>
> > >>> 1. Government by the people, exercised either directly
> > >>>or through elected representatives.
> > >>> 2. A political or social unit that has such a
> > >>>government.
> > >>> 3. The common people, considered as the primary source
> > >>>of political power.
> > >>> 4. Majority rule.
> > >>> 5. The principles of social equality and respect for
> > >>>the individual within a community.
> > >>>
> > >>How does this work in practice in a school? Check
> > >>http://www.sudval.org/texts/governed.html
> > >>
> > >>The bizarre disconnect between our nation's schools, and our
> > >>cultural and national support of Democracy, was one of the
> > >>reasons for the founding of Sudbury Valley and the Sudbury
> > >>School movement. One of our first books -- the Crisis in
> > >>American Education -- addresses this head on. See
> > >>http://www.sudval.org/texts/crisis.html
> > >>
> > >>--
> > >>
> > >>--Scott David Gray
> > >>reply to: sgray_at_sudval.org
> > >>http://www.unseelie.org/
> > >>
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
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> > Discuss-sudbury-model_at_sudval.org
> > http://www.sudval.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/discuss-sudbury-model
> >
>
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Received on Mon Oct 14 2002 - 15:28:02 EDT

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