DSM: Re: Dislexia

From: David Rovner (rovners@netvision.net.il)
Date: Sun Jan 27 2002 - 10:08:44 EST


Joe, read Chapter 5, THE OTHER 'R's, FREE AT LAST,
The Sudbury Valley School, pg. 31:

"In close to two decades, there has never been a case of dyslexia at Sudbury Valley. No one knows exactly why. The cause of dyslexia, the nature of dyslexia, the very existence of dyslexia as a true functional disorder are matters of great dispute. Some authorities say that as much as 20% of the populations suffers from this alleged disorder.
The fact is, we have never seen it at the school. It just might be because we have never made anyone learn how to read."

"The child is not the mere creature of the State."

David Rovner - rovners@netvision.net.il
Favors ending government involvement in education,
working for the Advancement of Democratic Schools
& the Freedom of Learning, Individual Rights and Ayn
Rand's philosophy in Israel.
http://www.sepschool.org/cgi/RegDisp.cgi/global

----- Original Message -----
From: "Joe Jackson" <shoeless@jazztbone.com>
To: <discuss-sudbury-model@sudval.org>
Sent: Sunday, January 27, 2002 3:17 PM
Subject: DSM: Dislexia

>
> > However, she was very worried about "W"
> > still not reading and his "dyslexia". So he gets tutored in
> > some special reading program.
>
> I seem to remember reading somewhere that Dislexia has never been
> diagnosed in a student at Sudbury Valley. Can anyone confirm that?
>
> -Joe
>
> He hates it so much she has to
> > buy him presents as rewards for putting up with it. The
> > tutor also tries to get "W" to sit with
> > his feet on the floor and stuff like that! UGH! I don't
> > think this mother
> > has even talked to anyone at school or read the school books.
> > I did what I could and suggested the latter; but wouldn't
> > it be better if these
> > situations could be avoided and , if so, what would it take?
> > The poor kid!
> >
> > Ann
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Scott David Gray" <sgray@aramis.sudval.org>
> > To: <discuss-sudbury-model@sudval.org>
> > Sent: Saturday, January 26, 2002 11:37 AM
> > Subject: Re: DSM: students rights
> >
> >
> > > Hi Ann,
> > >
> > > On Sat, 26 Jan 2002, Ann Ide wrote:
> > >
> > > > So, there's my story. I can't help but think that the
> > more parents
> > > > understood the model, the more supported the kids would
> > be and the less
> > > > stress around the issue there would be for everyone,
> > staff included. I
> > >
> > > Maybe. Though I do think that one very important thing that most
> > > alumni (myself included) take from the school is that "it takes all
> > > kinds to make a world." It seems that the world needs
> > people who are
> > > interested in foremost in dancing or fixing aircraft, just
> > as surely
> > > as it needs philosophers like yourself or myself.
> > >
> > > As system administrator in the Internet Room, I don't care
> > whether or
> > > not the students who use the computers know why the library
> > > corporation has a policy that one cannot install or use
> > programs such
> > > as Outlook Express. But if a student wants to know, or if
> > a question
> > > about the policy is raised in a Library Corporation meeting, I am
> > > happy to explain the position that Outlook Express is a
> > virus magnet
> > > and that using it greatly increaces the liklihood of the Internet
> > > being inaccesible from time to time while I work to get the
> > > viruses off the computers.
> > >
> > > Likewise, as a proponent of the school, I don't have any
> > problem with
> > > people who enjoy the school for what it is without knowing the
> > > philosophical underpinnings that make it that way. And obviously I
> > > wouldn't maintain this list if I didn't also enjoy talking
> > about the
> > > philosophy with the DSM community.
> > >
> > > > think it would be a good idea to include a book in the application
> > packet
> > > > (up the price $10 to cover the cost) and request or require it be
> > > > read before the interview.
> > >
> > > That's a question that has been discussed in school at some
> > length.
> > > The feeling of most people, after a lot of thought about the issue,
> > > was that handing someone a book would send an unstated message that
> > > "you should read this -- despite the fact that you've
> > gotten a sense
> > > of what the school would mean for you in the interview." Some fear
> > > that this would make us appear to be endorsing a "pro SVS"
> > curriculum
> > > for the parents, and could thereby undermine our attempts to
> > > communicate the most central aspect of the school -- that we
> > > are pluralistic and have no curriculum!
> > >
> > > In addition, some people at SVS have the concern that things people
> > > get "for free" are devalued in their minds. You can see this in
> > > action with computer software -- many people would rather
> > buy a piece
> > > of software than use one that is maintained by the Free Software
> > > Foundation under the Gnu Public License. I don't know that handing
> > > books to people increaces the likelihood that they will read it any
> > > more than the act of passing books out (like flyers on
> > > windshields) makes people want to toss it in the trash.
> > >
> > > However, other Sudbury schools have chosen differently.
> > > It's certainly a reasonable idea, but the school community
> > > at SVS isn't motivated to try it at this time. It does
> > seem that it
> > > may do some good in smaller schools, where being handed a book may
> > > have more the air of a personal decision than an institutional
> > > decision.
> > >
> > > > Hope this is a help, Warren. I have a feeling what gets so many
> > > > kids
> > into
> > > > SVS in spite of parental indifference,etc. is the discontent with
> > > > the
> > public
> > > > schools. You can do "marketing" from that angle, of course.
> > > >
> > > > Ciao,
> > > > Ann Ide
> > > >
> > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > From: "Warren McMillan" <warren@bmts.com>
> > > > To: <discuss-sudbury-model@sudval.org>
> > > > Sent: Friday, January 25, 2002 8:27 PM
> > > > Subject: Re: DSM: students rights
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > Hi Joe, Travis et al. If I can jump in here with an
> > observation
> > > > > that
> > > > seems
> > > > > relevant. This is a subject to which I have given some
> > thought.
> > > > > My observation was the first thing that came to my mind when I
> > > > > first
> > stepped
> > > > > onto the grounds of the Sudbury Valley school last summer. My
> > > > > thought
> > > > was,
> > > > > who wouldn't want to send their child here? It
> > occurred to me, at
> > that
> > > > > time, that it wouldn't matter much what the philosophy
> > was, if I
> > > > > could afford to send my child to a private school, what more
> > > > > beautiful place
> > > > would
> > > > > there be than this? And if I sent my child and he/she was happy
> > there,
> > > > > well, as a parent that might be enough for me. This thought was
> > > > reinforced
> > > > > by my experience at the short-lived attempt at a Sudbury school
> > > > > that
> > was
> > > > the
> > > > > Indian River school. Prior to opening the school, from
> > last April
> > through
> > > > > to August, I held regular information meetings for prospective
> > > > > parents
> > in
> > > > > which I went over and over the basic philosophy and tried to
> > > > > impress
> > on
> > > > them
> > > > > the importance of understanding and agreeing with the philosophy
> > before
> > > > they
> > > > > made a decision to enrol their children. In spite of
> > this, by the
> > time
> > > > the
> > > > > school closed its doors, it was very clear to me that virtually
> > > > > none
> > of
> > > > the
> > > > > parents really understood the philosophy, with one
> > exception being
> > > > > a
> > staff
> > > > > member as well as a parent. Moreover, as I got to know them, I
> > realized
> > > > > that it didn't really matter to them. Each saw in the school a
> > quality
> > > > that
> > > > > suited their own purposes quite apart from the stated
> > philosophy.
> > Now, it
> > > > > might have been that I did not effectively convey the
> > philosophy
> > > > > in
> > the
> > > > > first place but I just wonder how much it would have
> > mattered to
> > > > > them anyway. Now I hope this doesn't throw a wrench into this
> > > > > thread and, if it
> > does,
> > > > > just ignore this and carry on as you were, otherwise, I would be
> > > > interested
> > > > > in what people, perhaps especially Sudbury parents,
> > think about
> > > > > this.
> > > > That
> > > > > is, how important, to parents, is the philosophy of the
> > school?
> > > > > And
> > which
> > > > > is most important to parents: that my child be free?
> > that my child
> > > > > be
> > > > happy?
> > > > > that the school is a beautiful place to be?
> > > > > The reason I am interested in this is that I am thinking about
> > > > > trying
> > > > again
> > > > > to start a Sudbury school and the answers to these
> > questions would
> > have a
> > > > > bearing on how I approach parents next time around.
> > > > > I should make one thing clear and that is that I have
> > absolutely
> > > > > no
> > doubt
> > > > in
> > > > > my mind about the importance of the philosophy for
> > _children_ but
> > > > > it
> > is
> > > > the
> > > > > parents I must reach in order to get enrollment hence
> > the need to
> > focus on
> > > > > their perceptions.
> > > > >
> > > > > Warren
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > > From: Joe Jackson <shoeless@jazztbone.com>
> > > > > To: <discuss-sudbury-model@sudval.org>
> > > > > Sent: Friday, January 25, 2002 7:10 PM
> > > > > Subject: RE: DSM: students rights
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > Hi, Travis. You wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > we say that ideally (it would)! it
> > > > > > > would be a good
> > > > > > > think if parents were not initiating overly
> > coercive measurers
> > > > > > > within the home environment. Sadly, as with so many other
> > > > > > > things in life, this is not a
> > > > > > > realistic estimation. Indeed, more then anyone, if I had my
> > > > > > > way, we would
> > > > > > > throw all of these people out. But then we would be
> > losing an
> > > > > > > extremely
> > > > > > > substantial portion of our school.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > And
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > the number of parents who, forget about
> > > > > > > agreeing with the philosophy, are indifferent to it
> > is minimal
> > > > > > > enough! Based on my limited observations, right
> > now, you are
> > > > > > > LUCKY if your parents, such as
> > > > > > > mine, have a general indifference to the school and are
> > > > > > > simply glad that
> > > > > > > their kids are happy.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Are you saying that in your estimation the vast
> > majority of the
> > parents
> > > > > > at Sudbury Valley are there in spite of the fact that
> > they are
> > > > > > in disagreement with the philosophy? I find that a little
> > > > > > shocking,
> > and I
> > > > > > hope, in the interest of the welfare of Sudbury
> > Valley School,
> > > > > > that
> > your
> > > > > > estimation is off!
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Thanks for giving your time to this list - your
> > perspectives are
> > very
> > > > > > welcome.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > -Joe Jackson
> > > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > --
> > >
> > > --Scott David Gray
> > > reply to: sgray@sudval.org
> > > http://www.unseelie.org/
> > > ============================================================
> > > It has continually struck us that there is no element in
> > modern life
> > > that is more lamentable than the fact that the modern man
> > has to seek
> > > all artistic existence in a sedentary state. If he wishes to float
> > > into fairyland, he reads a book; if he wishes to dash into
> > the thick
> > > of battle, he reads a book; if he wishes to soar into
> > heaven, he reads
> > > a book; if he wishes to slide down the banisters, he reads a
> > > book. We give him these visions, but we give him exercise
> > > at the same time, the necessity of leaping from wall to
> > > wall, of fighting strange gentlemen, of running down long
> > > streets from pursuers -- all healthy and pleasant exercises.
> > > We give him a glimpse of that great morning world of Robin
> > > Hood or the Knights Errant, when one great game was played
> > > under the splendid sky. We give him back his childhood,
> > > that godlike time when we can act stories, be our own
> > > heroes, and at the same instant dance and dream.
> > >
> > > -- G. K. Chesterton, 1905, The Club of Queer Trades.
> > > ============================================================

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