<<By the time I was ready to send this, Derek's post about Booroobin's
diploma hit the list. What I say below doesn't apply to their diploma. I
think your diploma's statement is great, Derek. It is meaningful to the
students, their immediate family, and the school. It gives a sense of the
nature of the school. People who haven't heard of the sudbury model won't
immediately understand how it can be true, but they aren't likely to ever
see the words... and they aren't the intended audience anyway. >>
I have tried, but have not been able to find any reference that attaches the
idea of an external evaluation to the word "diploma". I've assumed
(apparently incorrectly) that most people had the same impression that I
have... that a diploma implies that you hung around long enough to meet the
requirements. In other words you are, in part, a product of the school's
environment. It is commonly acknowledged that diplomas from different
schools are not equal. It doesn't pretend to say anything about competence,
or in the case of high school, what was actually learned. Some
diploma-carrying high school graduates are far from prepared to meet the
challenges of the adult world... academically, socially, or otherwise.
On the other hand, a _certification_ (per dictionary) "attests as certain,
or confirms". A certificate is "a document providing evidence of status or
qualifications". Definitely evaluative. I'm looking at one here on my wall
that makes it clear that my knowledge of certain topics has been externally
evaluated. This document tells the reader that I have exhibited a known
level of understanding on specific topics, and gives the reader a source to
contact for more information about my testing status and the more
specialized areas of study that I have pursued over the years since my
original certification, and to report unethical conduct.
It is not a diploma. This document says nothing about the duration of study,
or even the names of the institutions where I studied. It reports the
results of a series of evaluations. (With specifics available on request.)
FWIW, I think that a high school diploma is a worthwhile document in some,
but not all cases. When I finished high school it was the diploma, not test
scores, that represented passage out of my parent/school directed childhood
and into _my_ life. In theory, in sudbury model schools where kids are
living their lives for a good part of each day, such a passage doesn't
exist. But it probably is still lurking in the family/social structures
outside of school. If not, they probably won't be requesting the document.
In considering that a diploma indicates which school the person experienced
and maybe something of the nature of that experience, it seems a valid
document even for sudbury schools. If the need/desire is for an official
document showing mastery of specific information for entry to another school
or other institution, a GED (combined with other tests, essays, and/or
interview) is probably more to the point.
Sally ......._/)
~~~~~~~~~~
>-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-discuss-sudbury-model@sudval.org
>[mailto:owner-discuss-sudbury-model@sudval.org]On Behalf Of Joe Jackson
>Sent: Sunday, December 16, 2001 10:29 AM
>To: discuss-sudbury-model@sudval.org
>Subject: RE: DSM: David Rovner's and Bruce Smith's recent posts on the
>Diploma
>
>
>
>
>> If a Sudbury school wishes to enter into the process of
>> awarding some of their alumni with diplomas, it can do that.
>> If the school does this in such a way as to avoid actually
>> passing the judgement that offering a diploma implies to the
>> outside community, this seems to me a kind of fraud
>
>This is about the seventeen-millionth I have heard a diploma offered
>without giving the student a test called a "fraud", however it is
>interesting to note that I have not heard once where and how the speaker
>came under the impression that the use of the word "diploma" legally
>means there was an external evaluation given.
>
>I'm looking for information, but I feel like all I'm getting is people's
>general impressions.
>
>The following statement I made 6 days ago:
>
>> It has been mentioned that there is an expectation when a
>> person sees a diploma that the diploma was awarded as a
>> result of tests. I will not argue that there are those who
>> would make this assumption. There are also those who assume
>> the word "school" automatically indicates bells and report
>> cards. I question the idea that we should let the
>> assumptions of some in our society decide for us what the
>> word "diploma" means, much as I question them deciding what
>> the word "school" means.
>>
>> But when our diploma clearly states that for which the
>> diploma was awarded, I hardly think fraud can be alleged.
>
>has not been addressed in a post. So what can be my conclusion when
>folks continue to throw around the word "fraud" other than they simply
>want to label a practice as criminal without discussion and move on. I
>find this frustrating, and I find that I somewhat regret bringing it up.
>
>
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This archive was generated by hypermail 2.0.0 : Wed Mar 27 2002 - 19:39:48 EST