Thanks, Mark & Ann
-Joe
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-discuss-sudbury-model@sudval.org
> [mailto:owner-discuss-sudbury-model@sudval.org] On Behalf Of Mark Ide
> Sent: Sunday, December 16, 2001 12:29 PM
> To: discuss-sudbury-model@sudval.org
> Subject: Re: DSM: David Rovner's and Bruce Smith's recent
> posts on the Diploma
>
>
> Hey Joe:
>
> I often turn to the dictionary for standard definitions.
> Although I was taught that the dictionary was the source for
> "the definition" of words, I think this group is well aware
> that is no longer the case. Talk about fraud!
>
> I currently subscribe to the interpretation that the history
> of the world demonstrates that the world is consists of
> changing, and hopefully, evolving interpretations. Not too,
> too long ago, the general interpretation was that the world
> was flat, and everyone organized and planned their sailing
> trips accordingly (they stayed away from the edge).
>
> Merriam-websters defines diploma as:
>
> 1 plural also di.plo.ma.ta /-m&-t&/ : an official or state
> document : CHARTER 2 : a writing usually under seal
> conferring some honor or privilege 3 : a document bearing
> record of graduation from or of a degree conferred by an
> educational institution
>
> Not too helpful, aye?
>
> So, who are we? Can we be really be free from our past
> interpretations? Can we really live free in the moment,
> spontaneous, care free and live forever? In my opinion, no.
> However, is this not the general, and pervasive
> interpretation that adolescents live in (and many adults, I
> still find myself acting in accordance with these values)?
>
> Thus, information is open to interpretation ("Facts are
> simple and facts straight, facts continue to change their
> shape". The Talking Heads). You define what your diploma
> means, and let your children define what it means, and then
> learn how to articulate it others in the world. There will be
> some people who will have automatic, historical opinions
> about your diploma versus the traditional model, and judge
> you un-fairly, and close opportunities. It's happened to me,
> and it is something I have had to just learn to accept, and move on.
>
> IMO, there is no right way, but there are ways consistent and
> coherent with the past (yuk!), and so from there, we
> innovate, and make it better.
>
> Go Sud Val!!
>
> Mark
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Joe Jackson <shoeless@jazztbone.com>
> To: <discuss-sudbury-model@sudval.org>
> Sent: Sunday, December 16, 2001 9:28 AM
> Subject: RE: DSM: David Rovner's and Bruce Smith's recent
> posts on the Diploma
>
>
> >
> >
> > > If a Sudbury school wishes to enter into the process of awarding
> > > some of their alumni with diplomas, it can do that. If the school
> > > does this in such a way as to avoid actually passing the
> judgement
> > > that offering a diploma implies to the outside community,
> this seems
> > > to me a kind of fraud
> >
> > This is about the seventeen-millionth I have heard a
> diploma offered
> > without giving the student a test called a "fraud", however it is
> > interesting to note that I have not heard once where and how the
> > speaker came under the impression that the use of the word
> "diploma"
> > legally means there was an external evaluation given.
> >
> > I'm looking for information, but I feel like all I'm getting is
> > people's general impressions.
> >
> > The following statement I made 6 days ago:
> >
> > > It has been mentioned that there is an expectation when a person
> > > sees a diploma that the diploma was awarded as a result
> of tests. I
> > > will not argue that there are those who would make this
> assumption.
> > > There are also those who assume the word "school" automatically
> > > indicates bells and report cards. I question the idea that we
> > > should let the assumptions of some in our society decide
> for us what
> > > the word "diploma" means, much as I question them deciding what
> > > the word "school" means.
> > >
> > > But when our diploma clearly states that for which the
> diploma was
> > > awarded, I hardly think fraud can be alleged.
> >
> > has not been addressed in a post. So what can be my
> conclusion when
> > folks continue to throw around the word "fraud" other than
> they simply
> > want to label a practice as criminal without discussion and
> move on.
> > I find this frustrating, and I find that I somewhat regret
> bringing it
> > up.
> >
> >
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