Hi David:
I must have interpreted your comment without the complete context. I didn't realize you were relating trsut to diplomas. I have to agree, that is the cultural norm.
However, now I don't understand how that creates, "a deep negative influence over society, when diplomas are demanded for government occupational licensing and certification."
If a diploma does not certify adequate competence in a specific domain, then what does?
Mark
----- Original Message -----
From: David Rovner
To: discuss-sudbury-model@sudval.org
Sent: Sunday, December 16, 2001 11:40 AM
Subject: Re: DSM: Diplomas and Prizes.
Mark,
Let me give you an example of what I meant:
We used to see a diploma hanging on the wall of a MD's clinic.
That meant: _you trust_ a MD because he holds a diploma or _you don't trust_ a MD if he doesn't hold one or even it's illegal for him to practice medicine.
And that may happen in Great Britain the same as in America; in South Africa the same as in Russia or in Israel -- so that is "our culture" -- if it can be called that way.
And there is a deep negative influence over society, when diplomas are demanded for government occupational licensing and certification.
David
----- Original Message -----
From: Mark Ide
To: discuss-sudbury-model@sudval.org
Sent: Friday, December 14, 2001 2:25 PM
Subject: Re: DSM: Diploma and Prizes.
Dear David:
That's a pretty broad claim you're making about trust "in our culture." What culture are you referring to?
Thanks,
Mark
----- Original Message -----
From: David Rovner
To: discuss-sudbury-model@sudval.org
Sent: Friday, December 14, 2001 4:57 AM
Subject: Re: DSM: Diploma and Prizes.
And very important, Diplomas also reflect an existing climate of distrust/mistrust on one side, and/or an exaggerated trust on the other -- in our culture.
P.S. Please notice that all said about Diplomas is also valid for Prizes (Nobel, Pulitzer, Amy, gold stars, etc, etc.)
----- Original Message -----
David Rovner wrote:
The fact of people's aspiration in our culture to hold a Diploma (all kinds of them); the "hunt" after a Diploma, are meaningful/relevant mainly because they reflect the lack of values of our society (honesty, integrity, equality, equal opportunity, etc, etc.), and the lack of efficiency of government regulation. When you -- as a government, as a ruler of a country -- hand/grant hegemony and/or privileges to (a) certain group/s in the country -- academy, politicians, affluent people, paupers, Diploma holders, unions/workers organizations, new immigrants, etc, etc. -- this country can not be called a just society, neither an enlightened/a cultured society.
Clearly Diplomas are decisive to order and quietness of the country. Diplomas are a matter of bureaucracy and hegemony in our society -- namely, force struggles, struggle among groups an among individuals. It actually contributes to violence in our society.
I'm positive we would be better off without them.
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