I think the meaning of diplomas has a variety historical interpretations,
and people will create their own meanings too. For me, the diploma really
means nothing in itself. What matters is what each person interprets it to
mean, and how they articulate themselves in relation to me.
My old girlfriend worked at a famous mental hospital in Belmont. She told me
once that lots of people think that the majority of patients there are
un-educated. In fact, she said, quite a few people had Ph.D's. Thier
problems were based on believing that this made them smart in all domains in
life, when in fact, they just never learned how to be happy, i.e. basic
coping and socializing skills.
The thesis question, "How have you prepared yourself to be an effective
adult in the comunnity at large?" is an open and subjective question.
However, that does not mean you won't learn anything in the process.
How many of you have actually attempted to answer this question for
yourself? How many of you have opinions of this process without actually
having experienced it?
In my opinoin, it's a very useful question, and process. I suggest we leave
it alone, especially, if we're not going to take it as serious for
ourselves, as our school, and maybe, our children.
Enjoy,
Mark
----- Original Message -----
From: Scott David Gray <sgray@aramis.sudval.org>
To: <discuss-sudbury-model@sudval.org>
Sent: Sunday, December 16, 2001 12:58 AM
Subject: Re: DSM: David Rovner's and Bruce Smith's recent posts on the
Diploma
> If a Sudbury school wishes to offer a formal opportunity to
> celebrate a person's enrollment at the end of that period,
> the school can do that.
>
> If a Sudbury school wishes to enter into the process of
> awarding some of their alumni with diplomas, it can do that.
> If the school does this in such a way as to avoid actually
> passing the judgement that offering a diploma implies to the
> outside community, this seems to me a kind of fraud that
> would come back to haunt the school. If the school does
> enter into honest evaluation, it is dangerous for the school
> community to let itself forget just how _alien_ to the very
> heart of the school that kind of evaluation is.
>
> I am particularly worried when I see these two separate aims
> confounded -- to evaluate for a diploma and to offer a rite
> of passage at the end of a person's enrollment. When
> individuals in a school think of a diploma or thesis defense
> as serving _both_ of these goals, that weakens the very
> _heart_ of the school -- because it portrays (both for
> members of the school community and for persons outside the
> school community) the evaluation as _central_ to the school
> experience rather than alien to it.
>
> If the diploma given is a fraud on the outside community,
> that sends the message that the school is a "cover" or a
> "lie." If the diploma given does rely on an evaluation,
> that sends the message that the _school_ is about
> evaluations. When/if a school does decide to pay this price
> in order to offer an honest diploma (a convenience for
> students who want a diploma but would rather not bother
> seeking a GED), I think that the community should avoid like
> the plague the notion that the thesis is a "rite of
> passage," as it can only strengthen the misperception that
> the school is about the evaluation.
>
> On Sat, 15 Dec 2001 LisaLyons2@aol.com wrote:
>
> > In answer to "do you suppose these (sudbury) youths seek
> > a diploma in order to impress others? are there any
> > diploma-seeking sudbury youths who could respond on the
> > diploma question - why you desire to have one?"
> >
> > I'm Zach Lyons, a student at Fairhaven School in
> > Maryland. There's two reasons to me for a diploma: one
> > is the outside world, where a diploma is helpful in
> > getting a job, getting into college, and proving that
> > you graduated from high school.
>
> I'm not certain that this is the case. At least for the
> great majority of people who seek a diploma, I am not
> convinced that the diploma makes job/college prospects any
> easier.
>
> However, I think that the _perception_ that a diploma is
> valuable in this way is a valid reason for a person to seek
> one -- and by extension is a reason why a Sudbury school may
> be willing to perform the evaluations and judgments needed
> in order to offer a diploma, despite the clear tension with
> the basic philosophy of Sudbury schools.
>
> > The second reason is for yourself, and it's to have the
> > endorsement of your peer group of the last couple years,
> > for the rest of your life.
>
> I often hear this answer. Frankly, this answer worries me.
> When I hear people suggest that the diploma is an
> "endorsement" -- and by implication that a person who does
> not seek or is not awarded a diploma has _not_ had her/his
> choices in life endorsed by the school -- I fear that
> offering a diploma may be counter to what we try to do in
> our schools.
>
> I'm am content with my school offering a diploma _only_
> because I feel strongly that every single person who leaves
> the school (diploma or not) is wished well by the school,
> that every person's choices in life are respected by the
> community, and that those choices in life do _not_ need to
> be endorsed by the community and are _not_ being endorsed by
> the community when we award a diploma.
>
> > It's a rite of passage.
>
> Anything/everything in life is a rite of passage. The
> school itself is a rite of passage.
>
> You want a celebration for people planning to leave? Then a
> diploma is _not_ the answer -- from time to time a student
> at our school already has a high school diploma (in a couple
> recent cases, a diploma from us). And many MANY students
> who have contributed to the community of our school leave
> without a diploma (some leave in less than three years, some
> do not feel comfortable seeking a diploma, some are not
> awarded a diploma), but certainly deserve the
> party/celebration as much as anyone else.
>
> It seems to me that it is dangerous for people to connect
> the _diploma_ too closely with a rite of passage. If people
> want a rite or party, they could have one freed from
> evaluation! Why not simply set aside an evening near the
> end of the year, at which any person planning to leave the
> school is honored and has an opportunity for speechifying,
> publicly displaying their works, etc?
>
> --
>
> --Scott David Gray
> reply to: sgray@sudval.org
> http://www.unseelie.org/
> ============================================================
> Women are always anxious to urge bachelors to matrimony; is
> it from charity, or revenge?
>
> -- Gustave Vapereau
> ============================================================
>
>
>
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