Re: How We Come Off to Others (was RE: re[2]: DSM: democraticclassroom)

From: leslie (
Date: Thu Nov 15 2001 - 13:03:06 EST


concerning my previous post which you found "off the wall".

the reason i noticed your post in the first place was that more than a
few assembly members told me: "you got to take a look @ this..."
this was the first time i even went on the board. i have no desire to
hang out on svs boards. i'd rather take out the garbage.

but when i read your last couple of posts i thought i should reply as a
svs parent with a different point of view. i was horrified that people
interested in the sudbury model might think all svs parents share your
black and white, either/or philosophy of: "i know i'm right and they're
after your reply post accusing me of "launching a personal attack", i
laboriously went back and read all the posts on this discussion bored, i
mean board.

i began to notice a pattern emerging. it seemed that every time anyone
challenged your opinions slightly, or you even perceived that they had,
you would try and intimidate her immediately with personal attacks and
"correct" them. @ one point you say you just "want to educate them".

you accuse a newcomer of "being part of the dominant culture"...
it could be said, Dawn, that You are part of the Dominant culture; a
self appointed expert who hides personal anger behind political ideals
and cuts down anyone who dares voice a dissenting opinion. perhaps you
might do better on a soapbox or a podium because all your tirades sure
as hell don't qualify as discussion or dialogue in my book. but that's
just my opinion.
it's you who say, Dawn,

"I'm not about being popular,
I'm about being right."

when you accuse me, like you have accused others on this board, of
launching a personal attack---i want you to remember the first
amendment, which i believe applies to everyone, not only those "who are
about being right".

with all your "extensive experience with teens" it might interest you to
know that most, if not all the teens @ svs think most, if not all the
svs parents are pretty much fucked. it's been my experience from
discussing it with them, when they bring it up, that they especially
find meddlesome over involved parents especially offensive.

the whole point of the school is to leave them to it. kids can smell
schoolmarmish residue a mile away. NONE OF THE KIDS CARE WHAT YOU OR I
THINK. they just want to be left alone, not objectified into some tools
for our twisted political beliefs. what right do we have to tell them
How To Be Free? please.

+ on a personal note, don't threaten me, start stepping or calling me
out because i could give 2-3 shits if you are "unlike most sudbury
valley parents, an attorney with extensive experience with teens".
unlike you, i know i have nothing to lose.

Ghandi, my ass.

The following are your words, Dawn, not mine; culled from the archives:

"Please note: This is a discussion group. My understanding of what a
discussion group is can be summed up as the following: People have
signed up
allegedly to take part in a vigorous debate on the Sudbury model and all
the issues which relate to such a radical approach to education. I have
assume that anyone who participates in this forum has a thick enough
skin to
read about the dissenting and/or oppositional opinions of others."

"Believe me, I wish you could be enlightened too."

"I'm also glad I
live in a place where I can speak my mind whether anyone likes it or not
I don't have to conform my expressions to appease the politeness police.
don't care if I win Miss Congeniality in your book, because you aren't
exactly anywhere in the running for my award for brightest bulb in the
chandelier. Therefore, I suggest you stick to criticizing exactly what I
say rather than your fantasies about how you think I am saying it. In
future, I'll do the same for you."

"If I
am wrong, I'm usually pretty quick to admit it. In fact, I love to be
proven wrong, so I can correct what may be deficient in my thinking. I
love reading others' opinions, but since this is an internet discussion
group I would suggest that others better be just as careful in their
and arguments as I am with mine. Otherwise someone, including me, may
actually analyze them, disagree and write a spirited dissent. Oh, the

"As for you finding little value in what you refer to as my tirades,
what can
I say if you insist on reading them even after they contain warnings for
folks like you. My advice is to skip reading anything which you find to
not worth your time. I'm willing to bet that anything that has my name
attached to it is just going to be too much for the likes of you, so
pass it
by. That's what I did when you put out your call for papers to correct
you perceive as SVM's PR problem. I thought you ought to have more than
few months under your belt with a child in an SVM school, before you can
truly understand the model let alone try to rescue us from what you
to be its shortcomings. So I chuckled as I always do when new folks rush
to say how much they love the model, but SVM schools should just do x to
become better. (Not that I am immune to this syndrome. 7 years ago, I
thought SVS should develop an endowment for financial aid and other
ambitions. Being a slow learner, it took time, but eventually I got the
picture.) If you stick around long enough to learn how to appreciate
it means for your child to function in a dynamic democratic society,
you'll actually have something to contribute."

"since I have firm
views on the appropriateness of sharing too much personal information in
internet discussion groups. Call me crazy but, I also detect a note of
sarcasm which makes me wonder whether I even want to take the time to
your question. So, if you sincerely want to know how I make my
to the SVM revolution, you tell me what yours is first (if you think it
nothing at all, explain what brought you to this discussion group) and
then I'll take the time to tell you a bit more about myself."

"Some people have even gone way out of
their to tell me that. Again, I cannot help it if you refuse to heed the
warnings, and skip any post I might make. I won't be silenced, just
you don't like what I have to say. That's called the First Amendment
to freedom of speech. If you can't manage to find the delete key for my
postings, than you can go away. "

all your bullying won't silence me either. can you afford, Dawn, to
extend the same rights to others that you demand for yourself?



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