Re: RE: DSM: RE: convesation wandering (formerly Hybrid Schools)

Date: Tue May 15 2001 - 14:11:54 EDT

>I think perhaps you're stretching the facts (whether and why something is
>against the rules at the school) and the definition of the word "hybrid" to
>make your point.

Actually, since I view parenting, life and humanity as a Sudbury
experience (for intense purposes of the meaning of Sudbury) I was
ignorant in assuming that every other person involved in the discussion
of Sudbury would want to embrace the concept beyond anything but Sudbury
and Sudbury Models Schools.

>At Fairhaven, anything that violates laws is against the rules of the
>school. That rule was passed exclusively through the pure SM legislative
>mechanism, and is therefore not a compromise of the pure model.

Joe, after being apart of the internet since many years before the
introduction of the web, I can say that in this sterile environment,
without the luxury of smiles, relaxed faces and hand gestures, it can
create at atmosphere of defense - as opposed to just 'conversation'.

My whole point was that Sudbury can only be as free as the legalities of
any current government. And until children's rights are recognized - the
pure model of Sudbury can be the only thing they have in a cruel society.

>I think maybe the mistake you are making here, which is a common one, is
>that absolute freedom is an underpinning of the model.

I apologize to all reading this for my assumption about the structure of
what this list wishes to discuss - I was coming from the POV that Sudbuy
is a lifestyle.

I was not mistaken that children cannot be free in any society until they
are given the right to choose ALL that affects them ie: enviroment,
health, etc
I myself do not live in a democratic society if big businesses are
allowed to pollute and genetically alter the things that sustain life
itself. Hence my rights and freedoms are significantly stepped on by

I never asssumed that 'absolute freedom' is the underpinning of the model.

>I have heard another
>new participant to the list express that idea as well. In fact, once
>unleashed, we have found that these pure democratic groups of students and
>staff understand quickly and intuitively that a culture is a balance of the
>rights of a group balanced with the rights of individuals, and that no real
>culture operates with unfettered freedom.

I'm not sure if I'm a new participant. I've been heavily involved in
these discussions back in 1996-ish before getting exhausted from watching
all the defense at the same words that have different connotations for
different people of different backgrounds.

As far as unfettered freedom, you should pick up this month's UTNE READER
and take a look at the articles on Anarchy.

No culture can be balanced and treat children with respect as long as
Corporal Punishiment is not outlawed.

>Suicide is illegal, and there are legal requirements that people have to
>adhere to in dealing with a suicidal person. And our School Meeting members
>have decided, fully within the context of the model, to include federal,
>state and local as an adjunct to our lawbook. I therefore do not agree that
>Sudbury schools such as Fairhaven in any way, shape or form represent a
>compromise of the model.

My point was that Federal, State and Local legalities are in and of
themselves are a compromise. They compromise rights and freedoms of a
people everyday.

I can agree to disagree with you Joe. And do so without any illwill at
all. I can only say that I still beleive that Sudbury is hybrid to the
extent that children (and adults too) do not have rights and freedoms
within our govenernment, hence cannot have rights and freedoms beyond in
a school that is within the jurisdiciton of that government.

Again, I humbly apologize for the assumption that Sudbury is a way of
life, not just a model school for students ages 4-18, in this list. I
retract all that I said and will use it to discuss with people that
converse on the issues of life, all kinds, all ages all species, and the
preservation of the freedoms and democracy sans coercion.

Somehow I keep hearing the words from one of Daniel's cassettes about the
true fountain of youth being the ability to keep one's mind open.

Humbly & Happily,

If you want to upset someone, lie to them. If you really want to anger
their being, tell them the truth.


If you wish to be removed from this mailing list, please send an email TO with the following phrase in the BODY (not the
subject) of the message:

unsubscribe discuss-sudbury-model [the-subscribed-email]

If you are interested in the subject, but the volume of mail sent is too much,
you may wish to consider unsubscribing from this list and subscribing to

This mailing list is archived at

This archive was generated by hypermail 2.0.0 : Mon Nov 05 2001 - 20:24:29 EST