Re: DSM: RE: the digest and public school reform

From: Scott David Gray (sgray@aramis.sudval.org)
Date: Mon May 14 2001 - 23:37:33 EDT


On Mon, 14 May 2001, Alan or Laura Gabelsberg wrote:

> Thank you for sharing your viewpoint on this, Joe. I am inspired by your
> conviction. Let me know if I hear you correctly. What you are saying is
> it is a waste of time to try to change public schools incrementally. You
> feel if someone really wants to liberate learners they should "go all the
> way." Is this correct?
>
> I can appreciate what you are saying about it seeming like a waste of time
> to tinker with something else when compared to actively supporting a Sudbury
> school. Or at least, I imagine what it might be like - a big difference!
>
> What about a school that is something between what a Sudbury is and what a
> public school is? What is your view on that? Is that still not worth the
> effort? Many newcomers to SVS seem to have a very difficult time with total
> freedom concept. (Esp. parents) Even ones who seem to embrace this
> philosophy in all other areas of their lives, they still are so very
> hesitant because there is that ever present worry - "what if I am wrong??"
> What are your thoughts on this?

What could be "between" two such very different types of
comunity? What is "between" tumeric and peppermint?
Combine the two and you would have something very different
from either -- and probably less tasty (or tolerable) than
either of them on its own.

This particular thread has come and gone many times. If
people are seriously interested in thinking about this, I
would suggest a careful review of the "High School Harm" and
"Slavery, Education, Political Philosophy, Caring, Human
Rights, Effecting Change" threads in the DSM archive.

Check http://www.sudval.org/~sdg/archives/dsm4/date.html#53

> Laura
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-discuss-sudbury-model@sudval.org
> [mailto:owner-discuss-sudbury-model@sudval.org]On Behalf Of Joe Jackson
> Sent: Monday, May 14, 2001 4:54 PM
> To: discuss-sudbury-model@sudval.org
> Subject: DSM: RE: RE: convesation wandering Our Trojon Horse digest
>
>
> > My persective is that we need to persuade the -education establishment-
> > to "compromise", to to accept "just a few decontrols". We don't have to
> > move from our point, but they -must- move theirs.
>
> IMO a waste of time. When public schools say reform, they are talking about
> tinkering with curriculum. I reference Gatto like Warren McMillan (thanks
> for that blast of reality, by the way, Warren) did. (BTW, John Taylor Gatto
> was the keynote speaker at one of Fairhaven's first public meetings way back
> in '96)
>
> The Sudbury idea is not about reform; it is about revolution. Many, many
> people have tried to reform the educational system to a less coercive model
> for many, many decades; it is a waste of time compared to actively working
> to support a SM school.
>
> If one is truly interested in liberating learners, they will, IMO, abandon
> the "system" and put all their energy behind a school which wholeheartedly
> liberates learners and does not do so "incrementally" while actually holding
> tightly to the corporate and institutional reigns. If one thinks total
> ownership is lost on these students, I would invite them to talk to one for
> about two minutes.
>
> The Big Education Bidness response to this, of course, is that low-income
> students do not have access to private schools like SM schools, which is BS.
> Schools like Fairhaven have Tuition Assistance programs with which students
> of all income paradigms can attend. And there is quite a variety of income
> brackets represented at the school.
>
> Of course perhaps the insane pressures bearing on the American system are
> not as present in UK, and so maybe it's possible for a conventional school
> to actually turn into a Sands, but I seriously doubt it since the UK
> education ministry tries to wipe Summerhill and Sands off the face of the
> planet on a regular basis. Sounds like Big Education Bidness to me.
>
> I've nothing bad to say about all the wonderful people who sacrifice all for
> our nation's public schools, but the sad reality is that they are, by their
> presence and efforts, bolstering a coercive and damaging system.
>
> -Joe Jackson
> mailto:shoeless@jazztbone.com
> *****************************
> http://www.fairhavenschool.com
>
>
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-- 
 
--Scott David Gray
reply to: sgray@sudval.org
http://www.unseelie.org/
============================================================
If two men agree on everything, you may be sure that one of
them is doing the thinking. 

-- Lyndon Baines Johnson ============================================================

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