Re: DSM: about Sudbury model

From: John Axtell (newlife@theofficenet.com)
Date: Mon Apr 16 2001 - 16:48:03 EDT


Robin,

These children are all home schooled. All come from poor families. Some come from split families. Most have families that provide all, and more, "freedom" than a SV school does and none of the implied or actual control evident in a SV school that comes from peer and adult activity nearby the student and all the rules of how to conduct oneself. These students are really free agents. Thus my skepticism about the "freedom" in
the SV model having so much to do with the results as the highly structured environment and carefully chosen role models. These parents not only respect their children, they simply are not physically there for their children, or if they are, such as myself, choose to not force the education upon the child, though in my case the models who are interested in all sorts of things are certainly there.

John

Podway / Van Dertol Family wrote:

> John,
>
> What is the environment or circumstance in which you are working with these children?
>
> I wonder how much family role models play a part in this whole picture. I, too, have experienced kids, left to their own devices, being both inspired to read & to snowboard & never only to snowboard. But the families (adults) that I've been exposed to are well educated themselves & passionately believe in a profound respect for children, and consequently this type of philosophy. Is that the case with these families?
>
> Robin
> > >
> > > The fact that every child you are currently involved in has
> > > learned everything
> > > they know without being forced to is a most unhelpful comment.
> > > The observation
> > > stated had to do with diving into reading, math or science. It
> > > also meant to
> > > indicate that a certain amount of competency was gained in each
> > > of these areas.
> > > That fact that the children in your sample have all been self motivated to
> > > learn whatever they have learned does not in the least address
> > > the statement
> > > you reference.
> > >
> > > I am currently desperately trying to understand learning styles,
> > > left brain,
> > > right brain and all that stuff and am trying to figure out what
> > > it takes to get
> > > kids to come up to me and say, hey ! can I learn physics ?
> > > Algebra ? How about
> > > a few hours of Shakespear ?
> > >
> > > If you have some group of children that are coming to you asking
> > > to achieve
> > > excellence in these subjects, I sure would like to know how you found that
> > > group of children. It may be in your area children just have
> > > nothing else to
> > > do.
> > >
> > > Unfortunately the kids I work with, mainly home school kids, have
> > > interests
> > > that will not qualify them to get into anything. They like to
> > > make money doing
> > > minimum wage jobs, they like dirt bikes, quads, fishing, hunting,
> > > camping out,
> > > dancing, all kinds of sports and will stay at the ski mountain
> > > five days a week
> > > for 18 weeks a year (yes my son did this for seven years) (we
> > > have practiced
> > > real freedom with him).
> > >
> > > These kids have pretty much have learned everything they know
> > > without being
> > > forced to and no one will pay them anything more than a minimum
> > > wage and have
> > > no interest in going any farther than minimum wage, which is
> > > about where most
> > > of their parents are financially.
> > >
> > > I believe these children deserve a better life than what welfare,
> > > which many of
> > > the parents are on, and minimum wage jobs will give them. Very
> > > few of the kids
> > > in our area go on to anything other than the military or work in the mills
> > > around here, which are not only dead end jobs but ones that are being
> > > eliminated year by year by the green peace people.
> > >
> > > So if you have any suggestions it would be greatly appreciated. I
> > > am not really
> > > interested in just standing by and watching them all continue to
> > > wander around
> > > with the use of drugs and alcholo being their highest goal.
> > >
> > > John Axtell
> > >
> > > Joe Jackson wrote:
> > >
> > > > > I
> > > > > have seen few students that will just dive into the art of
> > > reading without
> > > > > being forced, or math, or science.
> > > >
> > > > That's interesting. Practically every child I am currently
> > > involved in has
> > > > learned everything they know without being forced to. I
> > > suggest that your
> > > > sample is confounded.
> > > >
> > > > Joe Jackson
> > > > Fairhaven School
> > >
> >
> >



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