Alan Klein (
Tue, 6 Mar 2001 13:49:27 -0500

Sorry John,

With all due respect to your fine self, Walter's wife was correct, or at
least potentially so.

Certainly people have free will to do what they please...we can't really
force anyone to do anything, so long as they are willing to be hurt rather
than to do what we say to do (assuming we have the power to hurt them or
worse if they do not comply).

That said, we also certainly believe that what we do has an effect on
others, or we wouldn't be so concerned about what type of schooling our kids
get...we would just believe that they can refuse to do whatever they don't
want to do and do whatever they choose to do and, in any case, turn out the
way they want to turn out.

The fact of the matter is that people do have influence with other people
and, as the power differential between them rises, so does the ability of
the influence to overcome the individual's free will. We can see this in
laboratory studies of humans and other species. We can see this empirically
in day-to-day relationships.

It may be true that some kids would not turn out to see the spanking as the
highlight of their day. This does not mean, however, that the spanking did
not cause some kids to become so masochistic that they looked forward to it.

~Alan Klein

----- Original Message -----
From: "John Axtell" <>

> With all due respect to you fine wife,
> I disagree with her.
> The person doing the spanking did not create anything, just fulfilled the
> desire of a
> masochist or in reality probably just invoking the agreed upon punishment
> for the infraction.

This archive was generated by hypermail 2.0b3 on Thu Mar 29 2001 - 11:16:55 EST