Re: DSM: Re: SVS for everyone?
Fri, 12 Jan 2001 18:44:11 EST

Thanks John; this is the type of discussion I seek.

In regard to "good" vs. "bad:" I don't think the terms themselves are
inappropriate, because I think there are such things as "bad" and "good"
environments, such as "this learning environment was bad for Billy" or "this
learning environment was good for Billy."

These terms are relative; I completely agree that individuals who have come
out of jail or military academies have accomplished great things, possibly
because they were involved with these institutions. I make no claim that
these are "bad" environments. I would call these environments "good" for
these individuals. I also agree with Alan that it may not be the environment
that produced the good results (I hope I am not misreading one of your
points, Alan); It may have be the timing for that individual. And, who is to
say that there is not an environment that would have better developed them
than the jail or military academy? I am easily willing to argue the
opposite: a free school may be a lesser educational environment than a jail
for a specific individual.

I continue to believe, though, that an environment that allows a child to
grow up with respect and with the freedom to choose their own path is
inherently better. But you are right, this is my opinion.


Interesting thoughts Mike. As I read your post a thought came to my mind.

I think that jail has produced some great educational outcomes. Look at some
the worlds leaders who were not quite all together until they spent years in
jail. I just talked to a good friend of mine who just spent five years in a
federal pen. He is a greatly improved individual, and he really did not do
anything bad to get him there either.

I also thought that our numerous military academies have produced some pretty
fine individuals and leaders.

While this does not mean that what you suggest is a "bad" educational
environment I just am not sure I have bought the idea that it is a "good"
educational environment.

In fact I am not sure that "bad" and "good" are appropriate words to even use
this discussion but please give me some latitude until I figure out better
to use.

So I am interested if anyone has a definition of a bad educational environment
that is any more than just opinion.

John Axtell

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