Re: DSM: Cult-school comparison
Tue, 12 Dec 2000 09:16:44 EST

Suffice it to say that:

1) with many (around 20, last I counted) 'schools' of counseling out there
based on as many schools of psychology, promoting 'counseling' in general as
a model for *anything* is hopelessly vague. On the specifics, most schools of
psychology (from a way high-level dabbler POV here) have specific problems
when related to the Sudbury model - specifically, coercion and denigrating
the person's experience in favor of the counselor's expectations, among other
things. From a critical-thinking POV, it is good to remember that one man's
subjective enlightenment is another man's objective hogwash.
2) Astrology? I feel, as I often do when reading your posts, that you are
using common words in ways that defy understanding. True, sometimes really
new thoughts will require a new vocabulary, but, out of kindness, could we
try here to put things in words used in as close to their commonly understood
meanings as possible, or, failing that, to at least point out that we're not
using them that way? That would aid my understanding and ease my frustrations
with these posts.

Finally, I agree with the sentiments expressed by others on this list - once
you have a specific measurable outcome in mind for the students, one that
you'd take concrete steps to ensure, you're no longer talking about the
Sudbury model. This is not to say you can't have a different model if you
want, but just recognize that it is different.

Joseph Moore

In a message dated 12/12/00 12:53:24 AM Pacific Standard Time, writes:

> A paradigm-cult for school--counseling:
> A cult is people using beliefs and rituals that are not mainstream. So,
> would a self-enhancing cult be (one that improves the individual)?
> How about counseling? The beliefs and rituals of counseling are not
> mainstream. It is an arena where it is okay to openly, honestly express
> feelings. It is okay to dig deep within for the truth. Chit chat, denial,
> and projection are considered a waste of time if not overt lack of
> Counseling, by the measures in the last message below, is a great cult.
> People are informed of the terms of their relationship up front. No one is
> harassed for making decisions in behalf of themselves. Kindness and
> are landmark virtues. People are to be respected and heard if not obeyed.
> Specifically supported are: being in touch with your feelings, having the
> ability to think analytically, questioning, looking at issues from multiple
> perspectives, and having control of one's behavior.
> Gosh, I wish everyone would sign up with a counselor. In contrast, most
> everything about our lives is selfeffacing.
> Mysticism is a reference to the spiritual or to the mysterious. What was it
> Einstein said, either one must believe everything is an accident or that
> everything is a miracle. Spirituality is the possibility that the eyes do
> not see everything. Only the religion of arrogance would reject this. And
> science, science delves into the mystery. Mystery stirs us to the core. How
> wonderful is the mysterious! Here is a mystery for us all, the scientific
> statistical odds are trillions to one in favor of the idea that our space
> program has governed the timing of its rocket science according to the
> position of stars and planets -- I'm talking about astrology, not
> (See, 11/8/99)
> I wouldn't throw out the baby with the bath water just yet.

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