Re: DSM: Re: Getting it

Allan Saugstad (
Wed, 22 Nov 2000 14:19:18 -0800

I agree with Stephanie. I'm not interested in talking with Dawn, and
will delete her e-mails before I read them. Life is too short...


----- Original Message -----
From: Stephanie Miller <>
Date: Wednesday, November 22, 2000 1:10 pm
Subject: Re: DSM: Re: Getting it

> Ah come on Dawn. Do you actually think people take "you"
> seriously? What you do is fight. That's it, fight. It may be
> useful in a courtroom. But it's not useful here. Please go
> elsewhere. I take this topic seriously and wish to discuss it
> with people who don't feel the need to display endless amounts of
> hatred.Steph
> --- "Dawn F. Harkness" <>
> > wrote:
> >
> >WARNING WARNING WARNING - Dawn's opinion follows, all the
> nervous nellies
> >get out of the pool! Rick, I am assuming that since you asked
> specifically>for my opinion you will be able to handle it. I have
> given your questions
> >some serious thought and I find them to be disingenuous and self-
> serving.>Let's review:
> >
> >>So I hope that you all will be patient with folks like me,
> people who
> >>have worked in the trenches and are honestly searching. If you
> had met
> >>me 8 years ago, some of you might have called me evil and weak,
> just in
> >>it for the money. (I would have laughed, by the way, knowing
> how little
> >>money there is in teaching.) And I probably would have given up
> on the
> >>sudbury model in sadness -- and probably given up on education
> >>altogether, thinking there was no good alternative.
> >
> >>Maybe I'm the only one with this kind of history. But what if
> there are
> >>millions like me? I don't know, but if there are, the
> appearance of
> >>irrational anger will drive people like us away. What if we're the
> >>second stage in the spread of the Sudbury model?
> >
> >How does this jibe with previous posts where you have flamed
> others with a
> >level of hostility I have not seen matched in this forum over the
> years I
> >have been reading these exchanges. For example:
> >
> >>> I shuddered when
> >> > you suggested rat-lab stuff for children and I
> >> > wanted to knock you on your butt.
> >
> >or my personal favorite:
> >
> >>"Growl! Snarl! Snap!" Come on, Dawn, be cool. Unless you are
> the proud
> >>owner of a secret police force and several thousand goon squads,
> you aren't
> >>going to further the SVM revolution by being haughty.
> >
> >I would point out that it was also you who wrote:
> >
> >>This reminds me of some of the in-your-face discussions I had
> with my
> >>classes. The word "discussion" says it all -- comes from the
> Latin meaning
> >to
> >>break apart. We hammer at ideas (and sometimes each other)
> until we find
> >out
> >>what's inside. I'm having fun.
> >
> >What a hypocrite! I gotta tell you, your lack of consistency on
> this and
> >other topics demonstrates to me a lack of any real convictions on
> your part.
> >That is why I don't take you very seriously. You drift with whatever
> >political whim seems to be in vogue for the moment. It worries
> me that any
> >fool can decide, "Hey, what a neat idea. I'm going to go out and
> start a SVM
> >school." People like you make me wish that the founders of SVS
> had a
> >copyright on the "look and feel" of SVS to prevent misguided tag-
> alongs from
> >doing just that until they passed some sort of certification
> process. (If
> >SVS kids have to get certified to used the microwave, I think SVM
> school>founders ought to have to get certified to use the model,
> but that's just
> >me.)
> >
> >For all your assertions that you "get it" I really don't think
> you do.
> >From your description of your life story combined with your other
> postings,>I don't see enough evidence that you've done your
> homework. My 10 year old
> >gets the model better than you do (and she should because this is
> her 7th
> >year as a student.) How much time have you spent in an SVM
> school in any
> >capacity?
> >
> >I'd like to see the SVM expand as much as anyone else. But the
> founders of
> >SVS had some very deep convictions which they would not
> compromise for
> >ANYONE no matter who was made uncomfortable by their style. From
> your>postings, I have come to the conclusion that you are no
> >Danny/Mimsy/Hanna/Joanie and I worry that if you represent the
> second stage
> >of SVM schools, it will be the start of the end of the model as
> it was
> >originally conceived. If you are serious about starting a SVM
> school, then
> >I urge you to get a spine and adopt the entire model with
> conviction. Don't
> >try to manipulate folks into seeing the value of enrolling in
> your school.
> >If you can't do that, please call it something other than an SVM
> school.>Call it Rick's School or anything else, but don't water
> down what these
> >special people have created.
> _____________________________________________________________
> Daily Cool Stuff:
> Bored? Then Click Here:
> Send Cool Stuff to your Friends:
> Riddles/Puzzles:

This archive was generated by hypermail 2.0b3 on Thu Nov 23 2000 - 07:48:03 EST