Re: DSM: Re: Getting it


Rick Stansberger (rickstan@zianet.com)
Wed, 22 Nov 2000 14:46:59 -0700


Sorry, Eduardo,

I'll keep my comments restricted to the topic of the list.

Rick

Eduardo Cortina wrote:

> Note to Rick:
>
> If I were you, I wouldn't respond to this post ( and at least not on this
> forum, if you feel inclined to do so). It's obviously become a personal
> quible at this point between you two, and as a reader and participant in
> this discussion, I am interested in people discussion the Sudbury Model
> only this forum. If you and Dawn want to work out your personal
> differences, I suggest you exchange emails at this point.
>
> Eduardo
>
> On Wed, 22 Nov 2000 12:45:56 -0500 "Dawn F. Harkness" <dawn@harkness.net>
> writes:
> >
> > WARNING WARNING WARNING - Dawn's opinion follows, all the nervous
> > nellies
> > get out of the pool! Rick, I am assuming that since you asked
> > specifically
> > for my opinion you will be able to handle it. I have given your
> > questions
> > some serious thought and I find them to be disingenuous and
> > self-serving.
> > Let's review:
> >
> > >So I hope that you all will be patient with folks like me, people
> > who
> > >have worked in the trenches and are honestly searching. If you had
> > met
> > >me 8 years ago, some of you might have called me evil and weak,
> > just in
> > >it for the money. (I would have laughed, by the way, knowing how
> > little
> > >money there is in teaching.) And I probably would have given up on
> > the
> > >sudbury model in sadness -- and probably given up on education
> > >altogether, thinking there was no good alternative.
> >
> > >Maybe I'm the only one with this kind of history. But what if
> > there are
> > >millions like me? I don't know, but if there are, the appearance
> > of
> > >irrational anger will drive people like us away. What if we're
> > the
> > >second stage in the spread of the Sudbury model?
> >
> > How does this jibe with previous posts where you have flamed others
> > with a
> > level of hostility I have not seen matched in this forum over the
> > years I
> > have been reading these exchanges. For example:
> >
> > >> I shuddered when
> > > > you suggested rat-lab stuff for children and I
> > > > wanted to knock you on your butt.
> >
> > or my personal favorite:
> >
> > >"Growl! Snarl! Snap!" Come on, Dawn, be cool. Unless you are the
> > proud
> > >owner of a secret police force and several thousand goon squads,
> > you aren't
> > >going to further the SVM revolution by being haughty.
> >
> > I would point out that it was also you who wrote:
> >
> > >This reminds me of some of the in-your-face discussions I had with
> > my
> > >classes. The word "discussion" says it all -- comes from the Latin
> > meaning
> > to
> > >break apart. We hammer at ideas (and sometimes each other) until we
> > find
> > out
> > >what's inside. I'm having fun.
> >
> > What a hypocrite! I gotta tell you, your lack of consistency on
> > this and
> > other topics demonstrates to me a lack of any real convictions on
> > your part.
> > That is why I don't take you very seriously. You drift with
> > whatever
> > political whim seems to be in vogue for the moment. It worries me
> > that any
> > fool can decide, "Hey, what a neat idea. I'm going to go out and
> > start a SVM
> > school." People like you make me wish that the founders of SVS had
> > a
> > copyright on the "look and feel" of SVS to prevent misguided
> > tag-alongs from
> > doing just that until they passed some sort of certification
> > process. (If
> > SVS kids have to get certified to used the microwave, I think SVM
> > school
> > founders ought to have to get certified to use the model, but that's
> > just
> > me.)
> >
> > For all your assertions that you "get it" I really don't think you
> > do.
> > From your description of your life story combined with your other
> > postings,
> > I don't see enough evidence that you've done your homework. My 10
> > year old
> > gets the model better than you do (and she should because this is
> > her 7th
> > year as a student.) How much time have you spent in an SVM school
> > in any
> > capacity?
> >
> > I'd like to see the SVM expand as much as anyone else. But the
> > founders of
> > SVS had some very deep convictions which they would not compromise
> > for
> > ANYONE no matter who was made uncomfortable by their style. From
> > your
> > postings, I have come to the conclusion that you are no
> > Danny/Mimsy/Hanna/Joanie and I worry that if you represent the
> > second stage
> > of SVM schools, it will be the start of the end of the model as it
> > was
> > originally conceived. If you are serious about starting a SVM
> > school, then
> > I urge you to get a spine and adopt the entire model with
> > conviction. Don't
> > try to manipulate folks into seeing the value of enrolling in your
> > school.
> > If you can't do that, please call it something other than an SVM
> > school.
> > Call it Rick's School or anything else, but don't water down what
> > these
> > special people have created.
> >
> >

--
"Weirdness abounds and shatters our illusion of order.  Heh-heh.  All the
dust is being blown out from under the carpet. Wonderful stuff!"

Wanda Hamilton-Quinn



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