Re: DSM: Re: Getting it

Stephanie Miller (
Wed, 22 Nov 2000 13:10:59 -0800 (PST)

Ah come on Dawn. Do you actually think people take "you" seriously? What you do is fight. That's it, fight. It may be useful in a courtroom. But it's not useful here. Please go elsewhere. I take this topic seriously and wish to discuss it with people who don't feel the need to display endless amounts of hatred.

--- "Dawn F. Harkness" <>
> wrote:
>WARNING WARNING WARNING - Dawn's opinion follows, all the nervous nellies
>get out of the pool! Rick, I am assuming that since you asked specifically
>for my opinion you will be able to handle it. I have given your questions
>some serious thought and I find them to be disingenuous and self-serving.
>Let's review:
>>So I hope that you all will be patient with folks like me, people who
>>have worked in the trenches and are honestly searching. If you had met
>>me 8 years ago, some of you might have called me evil and weak, just in
>>it for the money. (I would have laughed, by the way, knowing how little
>>money there is in teaching.) And I probably would have given up on the
>>sudbury model in sadness -- and probably given up on education
>>altogether, thinking there was no good alternative.
>>Maybe I'm the only one with this kind of history. But what if there are
>>millions like me? I don't know, but if there are, the appearance of
>>irrational anger will drive people like us away. What if we're the
>>second stage in the spread of the Sudbury model?
>How does this jibe with previous posts where you have flamed others with a
>level of hostility I have not seen matched in this forum over the years I
>have been reading these exchanges. For example:
>>> I shuddered when
>> > you suggested rat-lab stuff for children and I
>> > wanted to knock you on your butt.
>or my personal favorite:
>>"Growl! Snarl! Snap!" Come on, Dawn, be cool. Unless you are the proud
>>owner of a secret police force and several thousand goon squads, you aren't
>>going to further the SVM revolution by being haughty.
>I would point out that it was also you who wrote:
>>This reminds me of some of the in-your-face discussions I had with my
>>classes. The word "discussion" says it all -- comes from the Latin meaning
>>break apart. We hammer at ideas (and sometimes each other) until we find
>>what's inside. I'm having fun.
>What a hypocrite! I gotta tell you, your lack of consistency on this and
>other topics demonstrates to me a lack of any real convictions on your part.
>That is why I don't take you very seriously. You drift with whatever
>political whim seems to be in vogue for the moment. It worries me that any
>fool can decide, "Hey, what a neat idea. I'm going to go out and start a SVM
>school." People like you make me wish that the founders of SVS had a
>copyright on the "look and feel" of SVS to prevent misguided tag-alongs from
>doing just that until they passed some sort of certification process. (If
>SVS kids have to get certified to used the microwave, I think SVM school
>founders ought to have to get certified to use the model, but that's just
>For all your assertions that you "get it" I really don't think you do.
>From your description of your life story combined with your other postings,
>I don't see enough evidence that you've done your homework. My 10 year old
>gets the model better than you do (and she should because this is her 7th
>year as a student.) How much time have you spent in an SVM school in any
>I'd like to see the SVM expand as much as anyone else. But the founders of
>SVS had some very deep convictions which they would not compromise for
>ANYONE no matter who was made uncomfortable by their style. From your
>postings, I have come to the conclusion that you are no
>Danny/Mimsy/Hanna/Joanie and I worry that if you represent the second stage
>of SVM schools, it will be the start of the end of the model as it was
>originally conceived. If you are serious about starting a SVM school, then
>I urge you to get a spine and adopt the entire model with conviction. Don't
>try to manipulate folks into seeing the value of enrolling in your school.
>If you can't do that, please call it something other than an SVM school.
>Call it Rick's School or anything else, but don't water down what these
>special people have created.

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This archive was generated by hypermail 2.0b3 on Thu Nov 23 2000 - 07:48:03 EST